I basically agree with you.

However I believe it to be a fact that many liberals actually hate Trump. I am conservative and I don't much like the man.

And liberals seem to have more faith in government more than conservatives do and conservatives have more distrust in government than liberals do.

My parents are/were (RIP, Dad) conservatives and registered republicans and my republican parents hate/hated trump and his buffoonery and what they see as his betrayal to the very foundations of America.

Funny thing, it was the liberals who distrusted the gov't most in the 60s-70s. I trust very few politicians in D.C.

For what it is worth, I basically agree with you and with your parents. Trump does act like and appear to be a buffoon much to often, yet he is closer to representing my values than Hillary was and God forbid than Bernie is.

Ya that Bernie and his socialism, not in my America, right?

The problem for me with this complicated situation is that I greatly prefer personal autonomy is most things, but that's heavily weighted towards things that don't affect others, in health, safety, or money.

Want to smoke two packs a day? Knock yourself out...just make sure you can afford to pay for your own cancer treatments, or pay extra-high insurance premiums, so we don't pay for your bad behavior.

That pretty much applies to all drug use, and most social actions.

The problem is when someone's "freedom" runs into someone else's health or safety...I tend to go with the person whose health or safety is being threatened.

Honestly, if you are stupid enough to think this is anywhere from "just the flu" to a conspiracy cooked up by the Deep State to discredit Our Lord & Savior Donald Trump, then I think you should have every right to catch it, and God willing, die horribly...but...

You don't get medical care unless you pay out of pocket, and there is a space left for you after all the non-idiots get their medical care.

You don't get to go anywhere, or act in any way, that exposes innocent people to death from your stupid behavior.

Unfortunately those useful idiots that show up at Koch Industry's protests don't want to adhere to any social responsibility...they want the "freedom" to threaten other people with their stupidity...both directly by getting sick and infecting others, and indirectly by sucking up medical care that, frankly, they don't deserve.

In a perfect world people wouldn't be that stupid, but not only are half the people of below average intelligence, those that attend those protests are the bottom of that bottom half.

So here we are. When does their freedom to be ignorant fools run into someone else's freedom to be free from their stupidity?

Fish on...

Todd

The fact is you are seldom if ever honest.

I would never try to make you do anything, I am conservative in my values. As far as I am concerned you may do as you please as long as you do not inhibit me because "I believe that that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuitof Happiness".

I also believe that the current situation makes it apparent how many sheep are in the field.

“Liberals” aren’t even truly liberal. They’re leftist whack jobs that are offensive to people like me who are a more classical liberal. They hijacked the word to describe themselves in a way that makes them sound good. Being liberal means being free, unrestrained, not bound by authoritarianism, based on the principles of liberalism. How on earth is that consistent with ANY leftist ideology?

What it boils down to is that a lot of people have faith in government to do everything and solve every problem. Government for the most part does a pretty poor job at doing most things. Some people trust and believe in government for everything, and some people don’t trust government and believe they should do little to nothing.

Throughout history, Pandemic’s and outbreaks have been managed by doctors. This covid-19 situation is being managed by politicians. The republicans and democrats are both to blame. Government has no right to tell people they can’t choose to freely gather or conduct business. Having freedom comes with assessing and taking your own risks. If you are worried about getting sick, stay home.

I think many independents and centrists get labeled liberal because wingnuts have their heads up their asses.

I think they get they're leaning more right as of late because of all the woke SJW Dumfuks..

Thank you for taking the time to give a mostly reasonable answer, the only issue is the fact that both you and I are smart enough to take this seriously and take appropriate measures to protect ourselves and others, now what about those (mostly conservatives) that aren't...and don't?

I have less use for the government than most, yet I have even less use for people who are too stupid self police themselves in this lose lose situation.

This.

Beware of this new breed of sheep wearing wolves clothing.