got bored, been searching for a 303 cant find one out here... did some research on the A300, went and looked at it, last one, so i bought it...

looked at the Franchi, and the A400 as well, but decided on this...

will be a fine shotgun, i can already tell..

thanks for the Beretta advice...

Smart investment, just what you'll need for the zombie invasion.

Just a top down shot?

Not something from the ground level putting it in frame or accenting it in any way? Couldn't put a bit of all the photographical genius you have to use to give us a better pic of this beautiful piece?
AND it's mostly in focus??

You're losing your sh!t bud

its pouring down rain, ill take better pictures when its not pouring down rain...

Please include the cat.

And the moon.

And a pile of cash.

And your sewed up ass.

I just want to see the 60 pound backpack.. Best pic ever...

Keith

Gun aimed at mailbox thief would be good.

Only if wearing a mumu, and get the mumu in the shot.

Well, looks like you have a full photo shoot ahead!
No reason it can't be done indoors, you have a backdrop setup I presume? Maybe a nice cranberry tone to highlight that a300?

And of course your white honky ass...

Does that gun take ammo or water?

Nerf darts.

Lol

2 Stars

Don't be so hasty...let's at least see the photo shoot before judging. There is a lot of possibility here.

Hater

Fish on...

Todd

i should post a picture of my balls since you retards like to swing from them so much...

New Jack style...

The fuk are you or paker still doing here ?


Hopefully evo is actually a mod or a global
Mod.

global mod

I'm already an admin on a page with double plus the members here...

Its like being a preschool teacher..

All of my suspicions about mods have now been confirmed.

Hey rvr..

What 1 do all choke should i buy?

Extended, ported please...

So, 30 members? No wonder you don't have time to get a real job.

Not a clue, I have little interest in guns, no need to boost my self image or compensate for other shortcomings.

I will say taking 10% of my total savings and "investing" it in a gun wouldn't be my first choice.

In fact I don't think it would be in my top 100 choices.

24k...


Rvr sorry, thought you hunted..

Snit?

Exactly what I'm saying!! Where are the pics bro? Do we get to start calling you Georgia...or better yet Penni for dragging your @ss with the bringin' the evidence?

Get the fack back on topic

Just use the modified that came with it. You aren't going to use it for special hunting applications, so no need for an extended choke. KISS. Test your patterns on the backside of Christmas wrapping paper at various distances until you find a pattern that suits you.

If you insist on wasting your money on a specialized choke for no reason, review Carlson's catalog. They make hundreds of specialized chokes.

Remember to keep your threads clean and use some good choke grease or you could end up with a fixed choke for life. DO NOT overtighten. Just nice and snug.

Test a bunch of different brand shells to find out which ones eject cleanly. Some AL's and pumps have difficulty ejecting certain shells. If the shell crimp is too long by even a mm, they can hang up in the ejection port.

Have fun.

Great answer, unless you're planning to punch a thunder chicken at 50+, it's more about the ammunition your shooting. Extending the guns ability and patterns don't change that much from the factory choke.

Personally, I run the Hevi Shot 3.5" Dead Coyote 00 Buck on deer and the Hevi Shot Turkey magnum blend for the Banana Beards...

When it comes to ducks/geese just shoot Kent fasteel in the #1 or #2's, I've bought the black clouds and tungsten loads and they're a waste of money.. 3" #2's are plenty for the Sky Carp!

If you can't lead a bird, the shot don't matter.

Keith

Agree - but he asked about chokes, not ammo. The factory chokes are more than fine unless he wants to hunt something specific. He doesn't really hunt (to my knowledge), so he should just stick with the modified as a "do it all" choke for standard range duty while he learns how it patterns with different ammo brands.

Ammo is an entirely different convo and where the real differences can be seen.

I run 3.0" Win Double X for deer and it smokes. Oddly enough, I have an extended Carlson 00 buck choke that shoots lights out with standard 2 3/4, but kinda sucks with those DX's. I have no idea why. So I just stick with my factory full, 3 inchers and drop chit.

EDIT: NATE! What do you want to do with yer' new shotty?

Election ain’t officially over yet...

You tell ‘em, Streamer!

Fvckin’ Californians........

And that was my point. Forget the extended or aftermarket chokes. Just shoot the factory ones and learn how to shoot!

Keith

Choking yo chicken.

Wierd fvcking thread.

Shouldn't this be in the gun section?

"This is my rifle, this is my gun.
This is for shooting, this is for fun."

Unknown D.I.
1941

Yes, this should be in the Gun Section.

The "gun section " is actually the "hunting section"...so...

It should stay here. Especially the photo shoot.

No stars yet.

Fish on...

Todd

Since this particular *gun* is specifically purchased for posting rights on the internet, neither choke nor ammo will really matter. (very impwessive, btw)

Collateral information from more knowledgeable members is just a bonus.

Ithaca 37, Winchester 12, 410 Bolt single shot fit nicely in my gun safe.

Sorry, no pics from above, below or...anywhere.

Take photos of it sitting in the back yard.

It was for good optics at putting his wealth on display to impress lowly darksiders.

From blurry moon shots, to Caddy with rims, to sand seasoned beached boots, to the Mumu Mailbox Stalker, to guns, guns and now more guns.... been a fun watch seeing Evo get all grown up on the darkside. The future is so bright....

...you know.

Just wait..

Hatchet mod coming right up!

It's them stacks of tax free cash with all the $20's. Straight up ballin'!

Keith

Wait a minute!!!!!??

Evo grew up?

so i went out and shot 8 rounds of trap...

and man, i must say, im very impressed.. this is actually probably one of the best firearms ive ever bought in my life...

shoots smooth, aims well, not too terribly heavy (7.5 pounds), and just runs excellent...

didnt even pattern it, just went and shot, did alright for not shooting trap in 10 years, nothing under 22 of 25, 3 24's, still havent hit the magical 25, but i think i can with this gun for sure...

shot with 6 other people today, one had a 20+k Kreighoff shotgun that i beat, another guy had a 6k dollar Citori Sporting Clays, he hit 25 and i hit 24 that round...

2 other guys had a Benelli M2, and another one that was all carbon fiber and tweaked out, i smoked both of them...

2 others had old semi autos, smoked them too...

they have a bunch of shoots at that range so im gonna enter some i think, much cheaper than shooting rifle and pistol as well...

im beyond impressed, almost to the point i want to go buy the A400 they have left at Sportsmans...

the guy with the Krieghoff said that he thought that Beretta semi autos are the best made on the market, id assume he knows what he is talking about...

all in all, this is the most happy i have been with a purchase in a while, not often you can pull a gun out of the box, and never have fired it, and have it perform the way it did...

thank you snit, your advise was spot on, and thank you for steering me to a company i havent bought before, im beyond happy...

so, now comes the fun part... cleaning.. Nick, what grease do you or others use for the tubes? i ended up going to Big 5 and buying some Hoppe's gun grease at 4 bucks, and said FVCK IT and bought some Sig Sauer synthetic at 15 for a syringe, just in case... will those suffice?

need to clean it today as i ran 200 shells through it...

oh yeah...

I have never used anything other than Hoppe's #9, always done me fine, whichever gun I was cleaning.

Fish on...

Todd

thats what i ended up using, i guess ill see if i can take the Sig stuff back, or just use it on my AR and pistols...

gun is easy to take apart, kinda tricky getting it back together tho, but that was my first time...

i use Remington 40X Bore cleaner for my rifles and whatnot, but this isntance, im having trouble removing all the plastic wadding from just after the end of the shell area...

what plastic eaters do you shotty guys use that works the best on plastic?

i thought the 40X would work fine, as before we left pheasant hunting i cleaned the other shotguns, and i dripped some of that sh!t on my forearm and forgot i did for about 20 minutes... nice big red birthmark looking thing that started burning, then stayed for a week and a half, and all the skin peeled off...

so it works good on lead and skin, but plastic not so much...

I retired my Hoppes #9 except to sniff it once in a while.
I love the smell of Hoppes #9 in the morning.

Been using a Bore Tech product called Bore Tech Eliminator in my pistol barrels.
I think it's better than #9

They do have a Shotgun cleaning product but I have not tried it.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1014656799

DD, i think he is talking about the Hoppes gun grease, which is what i was asking about...

i just used that, i have the Sig grease but havent opened it, kinda spendy...

Hoppes #9 is an age old bore cleaner.
Dates back to WW1 era.
Has the most distinct "aroma" of all gun solvents.
If you haven't sniffed you some #9 you have not lived.
Hoppes is not known for grease, although they probably have one.

Gunslick is an ancient gun grease...it's black in color.
Not a fan.

Grease and oil....everyone has their favorites.
I like Microlon or Lubriplate 105...they are both engine assembly lubes. White in color and light in viscosity.
Overkill for a gun grease, therefore excellent.

For oil, just nothing light like Remoil, WD40 or CLP.
This light stuff tends to evaporate.
3-in-1 oil has the viscosity that I like and there are many good oils in this viscosity range.

Back in the 80's I learnt that machine gunners were using Lubriplate Outboard lower unit lube on their M60's to make cleaning easier.
At the time I was using a Browning B80 which has the Beretta gas system and the stainless piston that is hard to clean.
I started coating the piston with Lubriplate lower unit lube and it made it tons easier to clean.

Lubriplate 105 assembly lube, Lubriplate lower unit lube, Lubriplate 630AA (outboard jet pump lube) are all of a similar base.

Grease? On a scatter gun? Why?

Not needed.

You need grease for an M1. Mean ass metal parts slamming and moving against each other. That’s what grease is for.

Clean and oil the gun and choke. Don’t over tighten.

I’m still a fan of good old #9, CLP and Rem Oil.

For grease/oil, I just stick with 3-in-1, and #9 to clean.

All of my shotguns are pumps, I don't grease or oil them.

And yes, #9 smells like hunting season to me!

Fish on...

Todd

EVERYONE STOP!

Choke grease. Not bore cleaners or gun lubes. CHOKE GREASE!

It's only used on the threads of his chokes. That's it. Any good, long lasting non-gumming grease will do. I use breech plug grease made for Muzzleloaders. Thompson Center T17 breech plug grease. Carlson choke tubes also sells some grease, choke wrenches and other choke supplies. In a pinch, use regular automotive grease.

It's only function is to protect the threads of removable chokes; keep powder residue & dirt grit out while protecting the threads from rust. Runny lube is not enough. We live in wet western WA, so lather that grease on there nice and thick baby or run the risk of turning your shotty into a fixed barrel. Rust happens over night and choke threads are tiny.

Nate - also, go nice and slow and steady with your chokes. Like I said, the threads and small and tiny. It's easy to mash em' or jump em'. Finger tight and not any more.

OK - thanks for listening.

i used this, put plenty on, wiped the excess off the front of the barrel...


https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1014737252

Perfect!

Please don't brush a rifle barrel.

Nice purchase Evo! I like to shoot my semi-auto shotgun's on the "dry-side". Clean with Shooter's Choice (Gawd awful smellin' [Bleeeeep!], de-grease with brake cleaner BTW), and very light lube with Rem-oil. Choke tube grease...I just use motor oil or axle grease..clean a few times a year. Extended/ported chokes...good way to separate your money from your wallet with minimal to zero overall improvements to your shooting (makes you look cooler at the gun club tho).

Sorry, I didn't respond sooner, but I've been off the grid. Kid and I just rolled in from a 7-day round trip deer hunt to New Mexico that he won from SCI. He was informed that he was chosen for the out of state deer tag/license last Wednesday. SO the CHITSHOW ensued and we left Thursday evening as he and I drove straight through, trading off the driving duties (25hrs) to the SW corner of the State. The season opened Saturday for a forked Coues or Mule deer (NEVER been in the state before, NON-guided).

We hunted 3 days of his 5 day season and saw 1 buck at the end of the 3rd day. Decent amount of Mule Deer up high, as we would start in the desert in the morning for Coues and see does/fawns. During the 3rd day, he'd decided that he'd better capitalize on whatever opportunity presents itself. This was enough for the kid at the end of Day 3 when he turned out the lights on his first out-of-state mule deer buck at 120 yards. Tuff shot honestly; deer was trotting off as we'd just jumped it below the snow line in the pines (blizzard for 2 days in a row-on/off), and the kid had to shoot off-hand, and he anchored the buck in one shot with a high shoulder shot (decent 2x3). It even ended up being on the right side of the ridge, and close to the rig too! After skinning/bagging we packed up and long-hauled back home another 25-straight hours, trading off the driving duties between the 2 of us. Who'd think hanging out with a 16yo can be this fun, especially when he pulled the final 8hrs in the driver's seat (Idaho and Eastern Oregon were a phuggin mess today) and let the Old Man sleep lol?

Breach plug grease for me!

Keith

oddly enough, i was just done cleaning the choke tube threads again, and every time i do that, its loose... not hanging out the barrel loose, but a half a turn or so maybe... this is after 280-300 shells, is that normal?

i still havent hit 25... tons of 23-24s, couple 22's, when i was told to wear a mask (was the only one there) i dropped to 21 because i started coughing like hell... have not shot under 21 with this gun...

i ran some Winchester AA SC's that were 1300 FPS, and everything was going well, until the 24th bird, and i missed it, relatively easy shot so i dont know honestly what happened, drilled the 25th.. those are 11 dollars a box tho and im not trying to spend that much for trap shells really..

one thing i do know after shooting 35 or so rounds of trap the last few weeks... its kinda like golf... the older ones that think they are good with their 10-25k dollar shotguns, really arent that good...

they are a tad arrogant tho, and kinda scoff at my lowely Beretta which is fvckin funny because not one of them has beat me... matter of fact, the only person that has beat me so far, was a guy with 1 eye and the Browing Sporting Clays, and he was cool as all hell to shoot with...

i bought a fat bead sight, and havent put it on because some say that they can actually cause you to focus on the bead vs the actual bird, which is what you should be focusing on... its a screw in which is why i havent, i guess ill see if i can find a clip on to try first, i had some around here but not sure where they went...

so now on to tubes, i have been told by multiple people to use an Improved Modified (the people with the expensive guns, and a couple RSO's), im using a modified, now while my numbers are good, what if that choke puts me in consistant 24's with possible 25's?

i feel its worth a shot as they are under 50 bucks, i can get a ported one (probably wont make any difference) but i will be able to tighten it by hand to make sure its not backing out..

stupid idea? or should i take a swing as its not that expensive?

i will use the modified for hunting as i know for certain any actual live bird will die if i pull the trigger with this gun, they arent flying a 40+ mph either...

I did competitive trap in high school.....used my Wingmaster 870...because I couldn't afford anything else...and did quite all right. Still my most favorite scatter gun to shoot. Don't let the snobs with the bazillion dollar over/unders rattle you!

It's all fun and games to talk about all the 25's you have (or almost have) until you get a handicap.

You'd be surprised at how even moving a stupid yard back messes you up your shooting, let alone multiple yards.

Man, I wonder how many thousands of lead #8 AA shells I reloaded in my MEC 600 Jr. single stage reloader!?!

I pretty much stopped when we were forced to go to steel on the range.

that was a question i had asked and no one can give me a definitive answer...

is reloading shot shells the same as reloading rifle or pistol rounds? any increase in accuracy or a tighter pattern?

i havent moved back yet, but plan to at some point, still just getting used to trap again...

at TSC, they have games on Tuesday night i was told, bunch of people show up and do things like "chippers" and whatnot, sounded fun...

so i showed up at basically dark last night, and NOT A FVCKING PERSON WAS THERE smh...

so i shot 3 rounds and left...

one thing i have been doing, if i get to 15 or so consecutive hits, and miss the 16th, i will load 3 shells, and go pull, bang, pull, bang, pull, bang as fast as i can... been doing relatively well doing that, and it puts a little bit of pressure on you as well...

steel? they wont let us shoot steel there...

matter of fact, no 3 inch, no steel, nothing under 7 1/2 either..

The only reason to reload for trap is a cost issue. The more you buy power/lead/cases/wads/primers in bulk, the cheaper the per-round costs becomes.

An improvied-mod choke is pretty common/standard in the clay games.

If you're going to continue to blast clay for fun, I'd get an imp-mod if I were you.

Can't hurt to shoot it and see if you like it.

alright, ill grab one...

one thing thats weird tho, is Carlsons .700 IM choke says you can shoot steel, lead, copper, and heavy, but the Beretta .700 IM choke is NO steel... why is that?

i wont be shooting steel out of it likely, but why would that be?

The .700 must be made with some soft(er) type materials. Steel would probably chew it up and destroy it.

Lead is pretty damn soft.

....only a guess.

so recoil isnt much of an issue, i guess i dont "need" a ported one...

so i ordered this one, it will be here tomorrow, weird thing, the blued one would have been here on the 8th...


https://www.amazon.com/Carlsons-Beretta-Sporting-Choke-Tubes/dp/B000GDFWTU?th=1

Sorry, didn't see the new activity. Parker is correct as usual though!

I agree, the I/M can't hurt at all. CT's are like fishing plugs though, get a couple and unless something is terribly wrong (you'll know right away) you don't need to buy/try but a couple. Set it and forget it. There are reasons and excuses for failure in every hobby and guys selling products/gimmicks to cure those excuses to make a living. Remember, it's a simple game man! After a couple of rounds, you've seen every possible angle. After that, it's just concentration and gun fit. (easier said than done)

"I did competitive trap in high school.....used my Wingmaster 870...because I couldn't afford anything else...and did quite all right. Still my most favorite scatter gun to shoot. Don't let the snobs with the bazillion dollar over/unders rattle you!

It's all fun and games to talk about all the 25's you have (or almost have) until you get a handicap.

You'd be surprised at how even moving a stupid yard back messes you up your shooting, let alone multiple yards.

Man, I wonder how many thousands of lead #8 AA shells I reloaded in my MEC 600 Jr. single stage reloader!?!"

I too started out with a field model 870 (20 ga), then 12ga 870 field, then a 870 Trap for a couple years. Along with a 600JR my dad had, I can't believe we didn't wear that thing out! 100 shells an hr, and that was flat-out MOVIN! I saved up and bought a worn-out progressive P/W, for $250, and I could do 400/hr then.

Yes, reloading was all about lowering the overall cost to shoot. We had a shot maker as well, I'd like to know how many tons I made over 15 years.. Now that I'm "back into it" (barely) most guys are just buying new shells in bulk, as the cost of components are so expensive. I'm still reloading, but I've got alot of components, or I find people selling off their old stuff. Plus I enjoy it. "Adding accuracy"..a little, but more so finding a load that's quick but doesn't build pressure and kick so much, and shoots well in your gun. Especially for long handicap, which I shoot (where the money was).

got the choke a couple days ago, went and shot 8 rounds in about an hour or so yesterday...

it didnt do anything numbers wise, im still in the 22-24 range (generally upper end) consistantly, but i did notice that the clays are exploding alot more violently when hit, so that is a good thing..

it also comes loose easily, im checking it every 5 shells now and its a tad loose, i guess my version of "hand tight" might not be what everyone elses is, or, its normal, or as 1 person pointed out yesterday i might be using too much grease...

yesterday was a bit different than most days, i shot my first 4 rounds just plain old trap, till this really cool guy with a 4k dollar Benelli came and shot with me and talked me into shooting Skeet, which ive never done before...

while it was fun, it was incredibly difficult, but, it was my first time so im not beating on myself too much...

then we went back to the trap house, and he suggested we shoot Continental, which i also have never done before... did OK, hit 22 of 25 and only fired 1 round per clay...

then went back to trap for the last round, and this really cool older guy (competition shooter) came and asked to shoot with me, not a problem at all...

he was looking for his ear plugs, and i offered him a fresh pair but he said he had some in his car, and was about to set his shotgun down on the table, so i said i can hold that for you sir, and he handed it to me...

it was a 31k dollar Kreighoff, and damn was that thing nice.. the detail in the engraving, the balance, the weight, incredible, way out of my price range tho...

he was a very polite and respectful guy, we were BS'ing and i had mentioned that i havent hit the 25th yet (came close), and have shot for a long time...

his response, kinda flipped a switch, and hes right, because i do it every. single. time...

"stop counting"

i dont nessecarily "count" but i keep repeating in my head, "you have hit every one, its gonna happen", and i end up rushing myself and missing by very small margins.. its gonna take a while for me to adjust that tho as i have always done it... what i need to be doing is SLOW DOWN and just have fun, stop trying to push myself and compete with myself in every aspect of everything i do for the most part.. because thats when i make mistakes..

i really pushed myself further than i normally do yesterday, as instead of 6 rounds i planned on shooting 10, so i shot the first 4 very very quickly (like 15 or 20 minutes quick), and on the 4th round i was kinda fatigued in my arms, and on 1 of them, i called pull, bird came out, locked on, went to pull the trigger, and nothing happened...

meaning my finger didnt move... my brain told it to move, but nothing happened... never experienced something like that before... think it was just lactic acid buildup from pushing myself too fast...

another thing that is weird is the DRAM allowance, we can only go to 3 and i was running a couple boxes of 3 1/4 and Ed the RSO came and told me that it was 3 max, he let me run the rest but i have to stick with 3 i guess... odd thing tho, is they are 1 OZ loads at 1290 FPS and the AA shells were 1 oz at 1300, which is 100 FPS higher than standard Win SS 1200 1 1/8th loads... he said it was because of distance and houses back behind the burm..

but how is 90-100 FPS going to carry a tiny ass bb 500 plus yards further?

and what about reload guys that dont even crono their sh!t, they just know what works for them?

he agreed, but as of right now, rules are rules so i have to go by them... weird thing, i do better actually with those higher FPS and DRAM loads even if they do recoil a tad bit more...

Appears your shooting is consistent.

Now you need to work on concentration and focus to move up to getting them all. Best way to do that, is just as you were advised; "stop counting them". Stop thinking about "25-straight". Ultimately you don't want to miss all day, so just focus on breaking each bird... "individually". You can only break one at a time, so each time you mount the gun, only focus on breaking that bird...not the next ones, etc.

As to your flinch, something wasn't right in your sequence. Probably lifted your head a tad, or just your eyes even and that short-circuited your system. Some people are more sensitive to this than others, and it appears you may be more apt than others. I went 20+ years until I experienced these phenomena. I knew right away what happened, as I "peeked" (raised my head) on a straightway, and the gun wouldn't go off. So, I make sure my set-up is solid every time.

Most clubs have a shot weight (and size of shot) and velocity restriction. Dram Equ is actually a irrevelant number that's outdated since switching away from blackpowder. If you shoot better with faster shells at 16yd, that tells me you're shooting behind the target generally. No need to shoot a shell faster than 1150fps, at 16yds. 1oz #8 has more pellets than 1-1/8 of 7.5's with less recoil (generally).

i shouldnt say "better" with higher velocity shells, what i mean to say, is that they explode a lot more violently than with 1200's, but, i can see why that would be as they are an increase in velocity...

for the most part, i havent found a brand or FPS or even shot size that ive done better than others with..

Federal, WInchester, Remington, Estate, game loads, target loads, 7 1/2, 8 shot, my numbers are always generally the same...

5 dollar boxes, to 12 dollar boxes, nothing changes..

the guy yesterday said trap is a 90/10 game, 90 percent mental, 10 percent skill, and im kinda seeing what he was meaning...

its whats going on in my head that is causing me to make mistakes..

and as you said, i should just focus on the target on hand, not the next 5 or 10 coming up, which is what im doing... thinking about keeping the progression going, instead of thinking about breaking the one right then...

the lowest ive shot in the last 30-40 rounds is 21, and that was because i got a bit irritated and didnt really care and was shooting really fast... if i slow down, im generally 23-24 all day long, but even then, im still rushing myself..

i actually kinda enjoy shooting with other people vs myself, because i tend to be much more quicker doing it when im alone, and fast is making me do the thinking thing after hitting 17-20 in a row...

i know im not "bad" at it, i have multiple people telling me how well im doing, or that im "making them look bad (sarcasticly)", and i also shouldnt be getting upset either, because trap is supposed to be fun, and when you get upset you will make mistakes...

that damn number 25 is just like a fish that keeps smacking your bait and you cant hook the fvckin thing, and it irritates the hell out of me

something i gotta work on i guess...

It's the indian, not the arrow... Let that sink in a little...

Keith

well, it finally happened, after something bad happened...

i shoot with an older gentlemen on Saturdays a lot, and am usually right next to him or 1 lane away... today another shooter asked me to come look at one of his guns before the round started, so i sat it out...

we were about 100 feet away, and KABOOM... shotgun exploded, the barrel was still flipping in the air when we turned around...

the chamber of the shotgun was 60 feet behind him and 60 to the left... the shell was 60 to the right... handguard was busted into tiny little pieces, barrel bent, stock cracked, reciever bent outwards... he got hit in the head by the barrel and it caused a nasty bump on his forehead..

THANKFULLY he is alright...

after that, still shaking, i managed to shoot 25 of 25 for the first time...

wierd day...

Never a good thing when a cartridge detonates within a firearm and the path of the projectile(s) is somehow blocked. That's what I surmise transpired during this incident.

I have witnessed 3 similar incidents where the shotgun had a massive come-apart, and the non-official conclusion was the reloads were lacking a wad. How the reloading process was manipulated to allow a bogus shell to pass "inspection" is beyond me? Possibly a double charge of shot/powder to fill the void? Either way, barring the possibility of a smaller gauge shell being inserted into the chamber, then a full-size shell backing it up, which would cause this kind of catastrophic failure. A live shell lacking a wad will allow the lead shot to liquefy, also allowing pressures to climb well beyond anything the guns are designed for. The end result is as you witnessed.

All 3 incidents I witnessed were people shooting reloads they had purchased from someone else. One little fella had the most beautiful Belgium Browning Diana Grade O/U. He'd just purchased it NIB, yet it was over 20 years old. He drove a new Mercedes, and he was at a registered competition. Yet he found some local-yocal to purchase reloads from at the shoot!!! We were standing back under the shade trees, just hanging out, and KA-BOOM! I happened to be looking "at him", but not watching him shooting. Upon hearing/seeing the incident I watched in s-u-p-e-r s-l-o-w m-o-t-i-o-n the forearm explode in 3 pieces and he got the [Bleeeeep!] kicked out of him!! He then slowly turned around (gun still shouldered) and was close to pointing it at the crowd of spectators, as he was honestly in shock, and another shooter came out of nowhere and knocked him to the ground!! The event was 16yd singles, so he only should of had one shell in the gun (which he did-but this dude seemed like a pretty new shooter, was hard to understand with his thick accent, and overall was just kinda goofy..as I saw him several times that summer).

I reload on a couple of Ponsness/Warrens and you can get a double charge of shot/powder. If you do, you have a double charge of each though, and the manual spells this out MULTIPLE TIMES! Shot spills all over the table, and that shell is phuckin' useless. Now the shell with the double charge of powder..I guess if you're an absolute IDIOT, you could forget to put a wad in it and then add shot and see what it looks like?? IDK, (knocking on wood)..I've loaded A BUNCH, and screwed up plenty, and haven't gone there yet.

I don't recognize the gun in the picture...trigger looks kinda different too? Were the shells reloads? Congrats on your first 25! I remember mine, 1986. Borrowed BT-99, Federal Paper reloads, reclaimed shot, 18.5 grains Red Dot, Fed Primer, Win AA12 Reclaimed Wads (yes, I picked up wads & recycled them). 4th-week shooting trap, man I was hooked!

I shot at Evergreen gun club in Littlerock every Thursday night around 1980 to 1983.
Great fun and some good stuff.
Floyd, Jerry and Karl were good dudes to hang out with.

I knew Jerry. That 40 yard game trap was a hoot!

Maybe the wad from his last shot was still in the barrel? Never happened to me...knocking on all the wood in my office...but the one time I saw it happen that turned out to be the problem. Was also a re-loaded shell.

Fish on...

Todd

no, not a wad, he hit the bird right before just like normal, not a blooper...

i brought up a double charge, and he said no, and i kinda figured the same, as it would be tough to even get the wad to seat correctly, it would stick out of the top of it before being crimped... you would have to be blind to not see it... plus you would likely see it sticking out after the crimp possibly...

there are a couple theories we have..

his theory is possibly that the chamber just gave out after hundreds of thousands of shells gone through it...

i suppose...

here are my theories..

but there is another issue, right before he started shooting, he had the barrel rested on his foot, and was trying to put on his glasses, and it was still frozen out here on Saturday at 9:30 AM, and, he dropped it... i was watching when it happened and you could hear it his the concrete HARD, and he yelled out "OH SH!T" when it happened... that was probably a "i just [Bleeeeep!] my favorite gun up" tone i think...

it hit the concrete hard enough to dent the aluminum ring that goes around the butt plate and connects to the stock, and it dented it pretty good...

he fired 2 shots before it blew up, so if it turned and hit the top of the reciever, it could have cracked it possibly then the 2 shells started the process, 3rd kaboom...

or, the wad wasnt pushed in all the way down to the powder, and there was a sufficient air gap that created a detonation vs combustion...

the secondary explosion from the gases in a detonation would cause the pressures to rise to 30k+... no shotgun can withstand that pressure whatsoever...

another guy that is an ex olympian shooter, suggested that if he oiled his "sliders"? reloading that maybe oil got in the shell? he said no... i guess the other guy witnessed just that, a guy was reloading, and oil got in there with the powder and created more of a fuel, and it blew the guys arm off almost to the elbow...

whatever it was, it was scary as hell, i will never forget that sound, and i hope to never hear it again...

snit, it "was" a Franchi 2005 from the 70s, had both the single trap barrel and the O/U barrel... "was" a very nice, fairly expensive shotgun...

He said no because he probably didn't want to admit to making that error.
A double charge is quite possible no matter what he says.
I know because I've done it.
Blew up a nice 1100.

Lead shot will sometimes "bridge" during the loading process.
This is where a pellet gets caught between the bushing and reservoir.
If you back off the handle to clear the bridge (jam), you can drop the powder twice on some loaders.

So if you get one of these jams, inspect the round in question before proceeding.

With a double charge, you may notice something odd about the crimp.
Or you may not, depending on the components.

i talked to him just a while ago today, still no definitive answer, but i asked him if he could have made a mistake, and he said its possible.. "sh!t happens sometimes" which is true...

he reloads 15k shells a year, and has been since 1960.. so i guess a mistake can be made in that long of a time, and that many... it can happen to anyone..

he is alright, he has a ruptured ear drum and the bump is now just a slight bruise...

on a good note, i think everything is starting to fall into place...

i shot 1 23, 3 24's, and 3 25 of 25 today...

whats kinda annoying is how dirty Federal bulk shells are compared to Winchester SS bulk... but, with #8 shot is where ive been doing the 25's as of recent, so im likely gonna stick with them...

Just shooting from the 16 yard line..

Evo, you're shooting pretty damn good.

Cool story about the local guy that was the reason for the 27 yard line.
http://www.pssatrap.org/road-to-yesterday/Arnold-Riegger.htm

definitely a cool read, thanks for posting that DD..

i think it has to do with me shooting with a couple guys a lot, they are pushing me to do better, well not them, but me... because they are very very good, Joe shot at the olympics and to be able to shoot with someone like that, is a huge plus...

You are putting it together, congrats. Time to start moving back.

What year(s) was your friend on the US Shooting Team, and which Olympics did he compete at? That's quite the accomplishment.

nah, i forgot...

he made the 92 Barcelona team, but wasnt selected to go or some sh!t.. guess hes not a "real" olympian, but hes gotten farther than you, or probably anyone you know...

shot 3 rounds of skeet with him yesterday, lots of fun, and had a great time learning... shot 4 rounds of 5 stand 2 weeks ago, that was tons of fun, but extremely challenging...

Joe (the "olympian") is one of the "chipper" guys, he will blow a bird up, and shoot another piece of it thats falling out of the sky, yesterday while skeet shooting, we kinda did what we wanted, at one point he was sitting on the bench shooting clays, was pretty impressive, as you cant really move..

hes also left handed, not that it makes much of a difference, but its impressive watching him...

the Beretta has run flawlessly, not 1 issue.. i keep wanting to go buy a Citori or whatnot, but im doing so well with it, why?

yeah, taking over an hour of his time, handing me shells, telling me im going to keep shooting it till i hit it, and telling me im doing well, probably says im an asshole and suck...

i mean who would actually do that if they didnt like someone?

hell i wont even fish with people i dont like, so he must be a weird fvck to actually do that...

he was also in the military (no i dont know what branch), and is an avid LRP shooter, as well as doing some USPSA and IDPA stuff in the past...

he knows his sh!t, and is full of information.. been shooting with him since i got the gun so 3 months?

anyways...

Solid shooting advice is difficult to come by, sounds like your new buddy is legit.

I was invited to the OTC in the summer of ‘90 for a few weeks to shoot bunker (Olympic Trap). I don’t recall your buddy being on The Team (there was a couple of us from Wa) but I ended up not qualifying. Nevertheless, it was a great experience that I’d worked towards for a long time, plus II got to shoot with the top bunker shooters (not skeet) at the time including several future medal winners for 2 weeks. I’ve probably crossed paths with your new friend in the past if he shot trap in the 90’s.

so then sports players that don't end up playing in games aren't really sports players..

Gotcha..

Athletes*

ive been shooting a lot of skeet with the "fake olympian" guy... been using the Superposed 20 guage, i do better with it than my 12 gauge for some reason...

anyone got any 20 gauge trap ammo they want to let me trade for paper?

anyways, almost blew 2 grand on a regular Silver Pigeon 1, but he talked me into the sporting model with the adjustable comb...

hes said on both guns i lift my head when i miss, so we are trying different things..

not missing a "ton", i can do 21 and 22 of 25, the last stage is a bitch as they come at you at 35 mph head on... need more practice, and for that, need more ammo..

did the duck tower last weekend, that was interesting, i hit like 18 on that one, but stage 5 kicked my ass, if it throws to the right, you have like a second to hit it.. think im gonna run the Superposed on that one too, even tho they can get a ways out there, and they are throwing from like 50 feet or more up...


i shot 5 stand 2 weeks ago and was going to leave and buy that gun, he told me not to and to get the sporting model which is only like 200 bucks more, has a few more features so ill listen to him...

skeet is so much fun, i have shot like 4 rounds of trap in the last month...

im gonna take my time on the O/U purchase, wanna make it right..

Beretta 68-X are really good "journeyman" guns. That platform (it's evolved, and I'm not too informed on the newest and greatest models) has been around since the early 80's at least. There are lots of available parts, most gunsmiths can work on them, and they're very reliable. Some models were more adept at refurbishment than others though, fyi (I think the 682 could be fully rebuilt, but the 686 couldn't?) I haven't looked in a long time, but check out Joel Etchen Firearms online (PA). (His dad was Rudy Etchen, a famous trapshooter) They were a large Beretta target shotgun dealer, with very good specials at times. One time my pops and I purchased 7 Beretta Super Trap Combo Sets from them, as they were priced so good!

As to skeet, glad you like it! I haven't shot a round in...I don't know how long? 20+ years? I never took to it, as there wasn't any money in the tournaments (just like 16yd trap, that's why I concentrated on Handicap). When I shot skeet, I got bored halfway through a round, knowing that the target always flew in the same path...not that I always broke the bird though. Small gauge would be fun, for a round or 2 (I just bought a .410 O/U for kicks)

International skeet, now that's a different critter! Never tried that. Like Internation Trap (Bunker), completely different disciplines. I can't help you on the 20ga shells, I have several cases of new laid in that I purchased for $3/box (Rem 7/8oz of #8,#9) at an estate sale 2 years ago for whatever game birds we want to pester. Otherwise, I'm thankful I didn't listen to the naysayers about a year ago in regards to components/ammo stockpiling! I'll be happily reloading for years to come (shotgun anyhow).

BTW...crazy how the price of diesel has increased $1 in about 2 months!

On skeet...
An old timer once told me, "You're throwing softballs with that 28" Modified.
Get a 26" Skeet and you'll be throwing watermelons."

He was right.

im gonna use the Superposed 20 gauge for skeet, i do really well with it for some reason..

im going to get a O/U with 30 inch barrels for trap and Sporting Clays, Joe uses a Citori from the 70s with 30 inch barrels and full chokes (fixed) and is lights out, but he is an elite level shooter and im not... he can literally take any gun and do the same sh!t, he did with my 2 last weekend.. its pretty impressive..

i do want to use the 12 for skeet as well tho, so i just bought a Carlsons skeet choke like the IM choke i bought for trap a while back..

after i get the O/U the A300 will be used for hunting, as that is what it pretty much is built for anyways...

snit, he told me to check the same place, Etchen has a bunch of guns, they do have the sporting model for 2250 as well..

Cole Gunsmithing is another one.. they have some very expensive shotguns there.. 30+K..

well i have been running the Superposed 20 gauge for a while shooting skeet, and today the rib seperated from the barrel, and now needs to be fixed..

its loos from about 2 inches from the rear, all the way to the front...

so now i have like 14-1500 shells of 20 and no 20...

might go buy a another 20, have to get this one fixed...

You piss a lot of money away

Midwest will fix that loose rib for a couple hundred bucks, +/-

Usually followed with the barrels re blueing for another couple hundred or so.

theres a guy that is the smith for a lot of people at TSC, he gets back next month and is gonna look at it, might be a quick fix possibly, might need to be fully removed and re laid...

pissing money away is wasting, i dont waste anything...

just got back from buying one of the new Savage 110 Precision rifles a little bit ago... should be fun...

The Evo lifestyle causes many here to become jealous.

Evo, what bullits are you shooting outta that new Savage ?

right now, the only ones i have.. ran some Winchester Match 140 BTHP and it didnt like those very much.. wasnt bad, but not excellent..

shot the 140 and 147 ELD's pretty much the same, and nicely...

hopefully i can find some Berger's and can run them as well, kinda tough right now tho...

even the 28 gauge shells are starting to dissapear from shelves all over...

The jealousy will overflow if he starts driving around in a 1960's Cadillac convertible and shoots his TV's

Black Bart let me shoot his large frame AR in 6.5 Creedmoor a while back.
His handloads were wanting to go into one bughole at 100 yards.
If only I did my part just a little better.

I don't know what the load was.
He would tell me, if I asked.

Here's my favorite target....the Redfield Target.
Put the crosshairs on the 4 points.
Breeeeathe.......hoooold.......bang !

I'd check with Art's Gun Shop In Hillsboro, MO or Roger Eubanks in Homedale, ID for your Superimposed repair. I've seen multiple examples from each place, and they both offered up excellent workmanship on classic models of Browning and Winchester shotgun restorations. I'd definitely verify about barrel patterning for POI after any side-rib work. Assuming those barrels are cold blue'd, don't let some joker have at it.

I just got one of my Perazzi combos back after a full rebuild. Took 10+ months, but it's like new, but it was missing an extra O/U barrel to my other combo when it arrived! I Finally got the other P-gun O/U BARREL Friday! That had me nervous for a month, during which that Texas storm hit, but my 'smith didn't send it due to that [Bleeeeep!] show happening there. I half thought it had got lost/stolen, but it all worked out!! He's 6 months behind (minimum, and I've known him for 30 years), so expect to wait a while for the 20ga.

I did shoot 1 round Sunday with one of my Bowen's, and I happened to get 'em all. Did the same with my rebuilt Perazzi when I shot it the week before last, 1 box.

Never heard of Art's
Do you mean Al's ?

Another one that gets high marks is Copeland's Gunworks out of Estacada.
Tim is the "featured" gunsmith on the local gun forum for full-service work.

It Looks like you got another 6.5 Creedmore then ?

“even the 28 gauge shells are starting to dissapear from shelves all over the place.”

Nooooo, please tell me it ain’t so, not the 28’s !!!!!

Looks like I’d best get off the duff, and get some 28 ga target loads back in stock...



“Here's my favorite target....the Redfield Target.
Put the crosshairs on the 4 points.
Breeeeathe.......hoooold.......bang !
[/quote] “

Dang, it looks like a clean miss on that target. !

“

Dang, it looks like a clean miss on that target. ! [/quote]
I'll let you bust my ballz when you learn how to spell Creedmoor.
How's that grab ya ?
Right by the ballz Dad !

Busting clays maybe, never balls.

Pull !

yes, its a creed... i got it so i wouldnt have to try to start finding another caliber with everything being limited and whatnot... the only other choices were .308, .300 WM and a .338 Lapua... the .308 i wouldnt be opposed to, but i have a .300 7 Hundo that ive only ran a few rounds through and it shoots very well.. and i dont even want to get into trying to find or pay for Lapua ammo, its ridiculous...

yeah a couple stores had like 60 boxes each of 28 gauge for months.. no one would touch it.. now there is 4 at 1, and 3 i think at the other... and they are 10 bucks a box for Federal Top Gun...

i find it really odd how a smaller shell, less plastic, less lead, less powder, costs more than 20 or 12 gauge ammo.. .410 is another one, some of those boxes are 15 dollars a box.. just weird to me..

DD, i love those targets, the squares are 1 inch, so you dont even really need to measure to get your 1 MOA measurement if they are all in 1 square...

ive been shooting the .22 a lot more than anything else, the HV ammo starts to get wonky at like 60 ish yards, so the groups will open up a bit, but then it restabilizes and is very accurate for the most part at 200...

id like to get some target ammo, but its through the roof right now, a 500 round brick of Lapua Center X is almost 200 dollars, and the X-act is 30 dollars a box... you cant find anything like that in store either, its all online by the price gougers...

Yep, Art’s. Been around 40 years or more. Not sure how they’ve faired through The Vid, but Art had all 4 boys working in the biz a few years ago.

I missed the "MO"
I was thinking Hillsboro, OR
Actually it would be Verboort for Al's

I've noticed that if there's a Trap Club around, there's usually a good shotgun 'smith around too.

Beauty for sale.
Rem M48 20 gauge SKEET and oh so sweet.
https://www.northwestfirearms.com/thread...4/#post-2888988

Nice gun, and a great example of an old long action recoil operated shotgun. As a barrel traveler goes, very smooth, with some shooters unaware of the barrel travel.

I've got an old Ted Williams Model 200 that's pretty cool. Not a 20 gauge though.

Sweet old pump gun for sure ! My dad had one in 12 ga, and it was a Phez’nt hunting machine when he shot it . Birds flush, bang, flop, and a retrieve with birds in hand !

I hated it as a younger bird shooter, mainly due to the misplaced safety in front of the trigger guard.

As a kid, it was so much easier for me to locate the safety near the rear of the trigger as was on my 870.

doing a sporting clays shoot tomorrow if its not pissing rain...

we shal see how that goes....

Shot a 67 i think.. First time.. Fun as hell..

Respectable for a 1st time on a SC course. I’ve only shot it 3 times. 79 was my first score using my wife’s 303 25+ years ago, on a course over by 9 Mile Falls. Not sure I’ve done any better since. I’d sooner shoot 27 yard handicap though.

ended up buying a Franchi Affinity 3 20 gauge a couple weeks ago..

first day i was livid, i think it cycled MAYBE 3 shells out of like 75, every other one was short thrown on the bolt (half way back)...

never owned an inertia gun before and it made me even more mad that it was happening...

the thing is super light, points light a lazer, swings great, and now, about 500 7/8ths shells and about 50 3 incher later, its broken in for the most part, out of 150 shells yesterday only 1 did it, and it was when i let a chick shoot it and she may have been holding it different and the bolt didnt get enough force...

but at first i was livid, it cost more than my Beretta (950 bucks), but i was intrigued by the 7 year warranty they offer (beretta and benelli are 3 year).. glad everything worked out..

we are gonna be hunting with Katies dad possibly again this year, were supposed to do a Columbia salmon/pheasant trip but he might not be able to get in to Canada to get the boat at the house in Campbell River, we will see...

will get the bird permit this year to chase grouse atleast, and maybe some pheasant down in the Skook site or whatever....

update on the clunkers..

Franchi doesnt care for the Winchester Uni bulk shells, i think its the ribbing being so miniscule on them compared to Estate or Remington or Federal shells... less ribs, equals more surface area touching metal, which could make it more difficult to eject with the 7/8th ounce loads... runs the other brands fine, and 1 oz when i can find them fine as well... still a good shooting gun tho, havent shot it in a little while, cleaned it a couple days ago and shot a round of trap with it yesterday, hit 24 so not too bad...

now on to the Beretta...

it has been the definition of reliable, completely astonished... people have asked how many rounds out of it i have, and i always say about 6-8k, well thats off... way off..

i try to shoot 600 rounds a week and i have had it about 30 weeks... well 600 times 30 is 18k shells, but there are a couple days i havent shot, or a couple that i shot 400 or 450 or whatever... 400 times 30 is 12k...

so legitamately i probably have 13-14.5k out of it so far, and there has only been 1 issue...

the Winchester Uni bulk ammo isnt the greatest, and there was 1 shell that had a bulge in it and it wouldnt fit into the barrel, i was shooting skeet, and click, nothing, bolt was only like 3/4 of the way closed... wad inside the shell was kicked sideways and had a bulge in the middle preventing it from going all the way in...

other than that, its ran like a swiss watch, dirty, rainy, hot, whatever, thing just keeps going...

ive seen 4 A400s have cycling issues with certain loads, the A300 cycles everything (i havent shot those gimmick mini shells however)...

thanks for the advice on the Beretta snit, love the thing, for the money, it cant be beat...

oh, and i after a only a few months of doing it, shot a 26/26 in skeet yesterday (hit 2 with 1 shell), followed it up with a 24/25, because i missed the last fvcking bird...

oh well, sh!t happens...

Have an acquaintance that waterfowl guided and also shot competitively some years back. He berated the Benelli autos because, IIRC, they had a roll pin or some such in the action that had a rather short life span and was prone to fail abruptly. This outcome was accelerated by 3 1/2" loads. The Beretta autos were his choice for function and perpetual longevity in less than favorable environments. YMMV....

Signed,
A pump and o/u fan.

i think the Franchi just doesnt like 7/8th WInchester loads, shoots others fine.. ill have to call them and see what they say..

they have a 7 year warranty, which is the reason i bought it, well that and i had tons of ammo here and needed another gun...

ive kinda been on the fence about purchasing an O/U, but i likely will...

likely will be a Beretta SP 1, with adjustable comb, Etchen has them for about 2400...

then i came across this one today, id really like to hold one, very interested in it honestly...

https://fnamerica.com/products/shotguns/fn-sc-1-overunder-blue/


i also came across a FABARM semi auto that has caught my attention, so i dont know what im going to do honestly..

not in a hurry, havent seen one of these in the wild, and finding a Silver Pigeon with adjustable stock in stores here is never going to happen... so i may have to blindly order which i dont really like to think about doing...

https://fabarmusa.com/l4s-sporting/

well, yesterday wasnt fun..

was shooting duck tower with my friend (the non olympian) and i had a FTE...

pulled the bolt back, and the empty was in there stacked on top of the other shell, basically it told me that the bolt didnt go back far enough to sling it out and tried to load another shell...

just figured it jammed...

put the other shell in, click, nothing... checked for a primer strike, and there wasnt one, which was odd, and i immediately thought i broke the firing pin maybe, or that something just didnt mesh right...

so i tried it again...

KABOOM

smoke came out the side, the bottom, and the area where the stock meets the reciever...

blew the shell completely apart, and fvcked my ears up pretty bad, they are still ringing and it sounds like im under water some times...






after that happened, the bolt wouldnt release with the button until i messed with it, and even now, the button seems stiff without the bolt even in the gun... so im sure there is more damage in there..

off to Beretta it goes, we shall see what happens...

sucks too, i got 2nd place in last months Sporting Clays shoot (hunter class), and fully expected to get 1st on the next one in 2 weeks, as i changed out my choke for one i thought i should have used, and missed a couple, should have kept the other one it.. i was only out of first by 1 bird..

looks like i will have to wait a couple months to try again..

oh sorry, that part, is the locking block, which prevents what happened from happening..

the ears sheered off..

That looks nasty !

Glad yer ok. So, does it go back to the maker for support?

yeah im gonna send it back to Beretta, at first they were just going to send me another locking block, but there is damage in there for sure, the button to release the bolt is stiff so i think something got bent or some sh!t, i cant tell...

my hearing is starting to come back tho, still ringing a little but better...

Don't think I have ever seen that happen like that before, hope you are wearing ear protection.

at that time i wasnt, stupidly, but that wont happen again...

i got frustrated last weekend shooting 5 stand with my 20 gauge, Winchester Universal shells are so inconsistant with manufacturing that the ones that arent ribbed enough, will not cycle sometimes in the Franchi, Federals it eats like candy, same with Fiocchi, and Remington, just not Winchester...

well i was doing great, and the fvckin thing jammed on me again and it pissed me off...

so i ended that problem once and for all..

i quit mid match, came home, dropped the stuff off, and drove to Sportco and bought a new gun...

been eyeing it for a few weeks, that and a Fabarm Axis RS12, loved the feel of it, but didnt like some of the reviews, and you cant go wrong with a Beretta 686 action..

so i bought a Silver Pigeon I Sporting, with 32 inch barrels...



so far i love it, just need to get used to it... ive only shot 3 rounds of trap, 2 rounds of skeet and 1 continental, but i did good, the 3 trap rounds are 23 23 and 24, continental was 21 (normal), and skeet i sh!t the bed the first round and shot an 18, then shot 24...

i also havent been shooting as much since ive been fishing, so i guess that practice does make one better..

ill be good to go for sporting clays in a couple weeks, and im counting on myself to pull out a win this go....

hopefully...

Bummer on your Beretta. I hope their CS treats you well. I haven't been pleased with their CS regarding a trigger issue with my Tikka, but that's off-topic.

Seldom do auto's hold up to the pounding that competition shotgun shooters provide (and expect) their tools to withstand; let alone with minimal servicing. Quality stack barreled guns do provide this. Nice choice in the Beretta.

I was in Argentina last week, and we shot Breda shotguns (20 ga) for doves (which appeared to be a Benelli clone). While I was impressed with the gun on my first day as there were no FTF's, on the 2nd and 3rd days there were WAY too many FTF's. The day I killed 1000; the first 2 hrs I was alternating between 2 of them as I was melting both of them down. Pieces/chunks of metal were falling out of the actions...but there's no telling how many hundreds of 1000's of rounds those guns have had ran through them? The guns were cleaned every evening by the bird boys, and I'd stop by the range room in the evening to assist (not needed though), but they had a well-established cleaning program. Both of my buddy's Breda's functioned fantastic though, so I figure I just had some bad luck with older guns.

yeah slamming 30+k shells through it in 14 months probably didnt help too much, is what it is...

the new one im really starting to like, everything is starting to settle in, just need to get some more chokes as i only have C IC, M, IM, and F, Briley has a 5 choke set on their website on sale for under 400, which i may grab soon, i like extended chokes a bit better personally...

this is it all together, next to my buddies (the non olympian) 9k dollar Ceasar Guerini... thats a tad out of my price range tho, but its a very very nice gun, and shoots like all hell...