Hey everybody!! I was just curious if a game warden can pull up to your boat (setting on the trailer in the parking lot at the launch)and without your permission climb in and search through your boat, boxes and all? It was not a big deal since I have nothing to hide, but I thought it was strange that she searched my boat, while my fishing partners watched, I was cleaning fish at the river. Could you more experienced gentlemen tell me if this is within the gamie's rights?

Thanks for the input, I just want to be ready if it happens again. Nothing worse than arguing with someone when you don't know whether you are right or wrong.

Good fishing, Doubletake

I don't know if they have the right. They might, but it sure sounds wrong and dangerous to go rummaging through someone's boat without permission. People get shot doing things like that! Wardens suits or not.

I'm pretty sure they do have that right. I know of one instance where a game warden looked into a film canister in a drift boat and made an arrest/ticket for pot. This was thrown out of court because the warden was searching the boat for possible poached fish and had no reason to suspect a fish could have been crammed into a film cannister. There was never a question as to the wardens right to search the boat or it's contents that could have held poached fish.

The same thing happened to me the other day on the same river you fish all the time, Doubletake. It was a blonde female game warden and she searched my fishbox, my storage box, which she removed my life jackets in the process, and even checked in the back of my Jeep. Wazzup, wit dat? I actually didn't care as I have nothing to hide except it is an invasion of privacy. I know that police officers may not search your car unless they have probable cause. I am sure that wardens follow the same guidelines.

Justin
CEO, Sauk River Steelhead Ranch

Total Bull****, They have no reason to go rummaging through anyones stuff without asking first, just because they have a gun and a badge they think that they can do whatever they want. While they are there messin with someone who is most likely playing by the rules, some guy somewhere is loading a poached animal into a rig off of the beaten path where they are to scared to wander. The film canister deal sounds familiar, about 10 years ago I got busted smoking weed on the river bank by an under cover game warden, he took the pot, wrote me up and when I went to court they could not produce the weed, well of course it was good stuff so the game warden kept it for himself and I walked away with no violation. that works for me and I am sure the weed worked for him.
Peace Superfly

I am pretty sure that they have to follow similar gudelines as the police.
ie :probable cause.
Did she see illegal gear,a gill net, or anything else to make her suspect something was up? I doubt it.

I would suggest writing the F&G and let them know that you are not happy with illegal searches.

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"Just Say No To Sovereign Nations!"

[This message has been edited by riverswild (edited 12-31-2000).]

Actually They havethe right just on the Idea that you might have poached. Acouple of years ago a guy told me one pulled him over on the highway near IIwalco and took everything out of his boat and searched it high and low. Then threw it back in and dove off to leave him to store it all away. Apparently they have more power in that area than the cops. Kind of like the Coustoms service has.

It's scary because I know of a couple of wardens that scare me to death.

They do have the right. When you buy a fishing or hunting lisence you agree to be inspected at any time by a gamie. Its a mixed deal. On the one hand it sucks to get strip searched. On the other, they catch poachers by doing it. Those guys hide their take pretty well and the only way they get busted once they leave the kill area is by a search.
I wonder if that blonde gamie would be interested in doing a cavity search??? If its the same one I saw a couple years ago, it would be ok.

Even if they do have the 'right', wouldn't it be better if they asked first? It sure would go a long way toward public relations, and our government agencies often tend to ignore this very useful tool from the real world. It would sure help soften the view a lot of us have toward them. Besides, if somebody says no, they can still initiate the search, AND now they have a real reason to be suspicious......

I know the lady you guys are talkin about!As we were leaving a little out of the way river we fish she pulled up and blocked the road in front of us.All she did was check our license, but she kept tryin to see over into the bed of my pickup,but with the 6" lift and 36" tires she was a little to short..We kinda chuckled and went on our way!!!TM

I would really like to know the real facts concerning the unwanted searches.. I can't believe they have permission to climb into my boat anymore than they have permission to walk through the doors on my house. If they ask for permission then that is fine. If permission is denied I think then they would need a search warrent inorder to do the search unless they had real probable cause to initiate the search. I've never been overly cooperative with them because they treat everybody as guilty first and you are responsible for proving yourself innocent!!That B.S. doesn't go very far with me! I know that a Game agent cannot walk into my hunting camp and stick his head in the door without permission. There must be someone out there that knows the real laws concerning this dicussion. Could you please tell us the straight scoop..

I am not an attorney, but I have over 20 years in the justice arena. I know police officers need probable cause to search or consent by the owner of the vehicle. They can seize your property and apply for a search warrant, they need probable cause to receive a warrant from a judge. If you tell them you do not want them to search they
should not continue. If they do continue and you feel you have been violated,ask for their
identification and personal number. Then contact their district supervisor and or your attorney. The DOW is doing the best job they can with the resources avaible but sometimes may unkowingly over step their authority. Don'T ever resort
to a physical confrontation with with any
one, it's not worth a fish or ones physical well being. I don't mind the DOW checking
me, I wished there was more of them. Although I would not be happy if they jumped in my boat without my consent!!!

Thanks for the input everyone. I will follow up and see what I can find out and let you know the response.

Good fishing

Doubletake

What have you guys been smoking?

Do you think all poachers are stupid enough to leave illegally taken fish out in plain view? Some are I'm sure, but not many.

How do you expect WDFW enforcement to catch poachers if you don't give them reasonable tools to do so? I don't think looking through someone's boat is unreasonable when the boat is coming off a river. How else are they going to catch poachers who have boats? Not all poachers are bank maggots.

The attitude of the cop is important -- I've dealt with some jerk enforcement cops, not pleasant -- but so is the attitude of the person whose boat is getting checked. If the boater decided to get pissed off about something that in the long run will benefit the very resource he is using, then that's his choice and problem. Remember, the main part of their jobs is to check for fish and game violations, not to soothe your ruffled feathers.

There seems to be a general consensus on this board that WDFW is understaffed, now half of you want to make it even more difficult for them to do their jobs? How more ineffective would enforcement be if they had to get a search warrant to check each boat coming off all the busy rivers in this state?

Cut 'em some slack. It's a hard and important job.

I've always had the attitude that their job is not one of public relations per se, but of intimidation to those that choose to not play by the rules. All they do is deal with this subject, everyday, all day. If they are a little grumpy and march right up to my duck blind (had that happen numerous times), hop in my boat (this to), or meet me at a launch (ditto) and want to unload my entire vehicle to check - MORE POWER TO THEM. I for one have nothing to hide and wish and hope they do this to as many people as possible. Thats the only way the message will get out there clearly, that if your going to cheat, you very well may get caught.

I would love to see more enforcement out there so the resource is protected, period.

My experiece has always been they are slightly more difficult to deal with then you are being. They have to maintain the upper hand for their own safety. If that means they are a little aggressive, you might want to look at the situation or how you are coming off. I couldn't begin to count how many times I've been checked and I can honestly say I feel they have always been reasonable and fair to deal with.

Steve

Sorry, guys, I don't buy it. The local police, state police, FBI, and every other law enforcement agency in the country has to abide by certain rules regarding searches, and I don't think the fish and game folks are any different. We have a constitutional guarantee against unreasonable search and seizure. If said gamie desired to check your vehicle, she should have asked first. No reasonable person is going to refuse, anyway. If she thinks you've done something illegal, she can detain you until a search warrent is obtained, anyway. I agree that they have a tough job, but as with any CIVIL SERVICE job, a good deal of your work is customer relations. A smile and a handshake can go a LONG way. Everyone is NOT a poacher, and shouldn't be treated that way. Nothing on their badge or in the charter of the F&G Commission says its OK to treat sportsmen and women as game thieves; last time I checked in this country we're innocent until proven guilty.
Greg

It would appear they do have the authority to check your boat, and or vehicle without a warrant.

Here is the text of RCW 77.15.080
Fish and wildlife officers -- Inspection authority.

Based upon articulable facts that a person is engaged in fishing or hunting activities, fish and wildlife officers have the authority to temporarily stop the person and check for valid licenses, tags, permits, stamps, or catch record cards, and to inspect all fish and wildlife in possession as well as the equipment being used to ensure compliance with the requirements of this title.

[2000 c 107 § 233; 1998 c 190 § 113.]

Wes

Hmmm,
I wonder why a game warden would search a film cannister?????
Maybe they don`t make enough of an income to buy thier own..*L*

They should treat us with the respect that we deserve, until we prove otherwise.

I had a situation-
In early Sept. I was hunting cougar in the Matheny area with my girlfriend and stepson. She was bear hunting as I harvested two bears in Aug. Anyway, we were camping under a bridge and a young (mid twenties) Parky came into our camp.
He came down and asked us how we were doing and what we were doing in the area, how long we had been there, had we seen many people/animals. The usual questions. He was very polite and acted interested in our small talk.
I knew he was there to write down our hunting lic/tag & vehicle lic #s. And after a few minutes he did just that, and was soon on his way.

I did feel upset about it cause we were not in or near the Park boundary, but I know it is his job to patrol the area and his attitude and demeanor were friendly.

A good attitude goes along way...

PS...I saw the largest wild hog on that trip that I have ever seen.

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"Just Say No To Sovereign Nations!"

I agree with Stinkfoot 100%. What will be the deterrent for potential violators if game agents can't check vessels and vehicles for illegally stashed fish and game. I've seen a number of individuals take wild fish illegally and high-speed it to their cars. If random searches catch a few of these guys....the sportsmen who obey the laws shouldn't have a problem. The fish cops should do whatever is reasonable to search out illegally possed fish and game. Do it for the greater good. A film canister is not a reasonable place to find an illegal fish however! Happy New Year!

You're right, all of you. It seems, though the right way to go about a search is to ask first.
Most of us, the ones with nothing to hide, wont mind all that much. If someone does refuse, then the warden can, at his discretion, request a search warrant if he has reasonable cause to suspect a poaching violation. All the while detaining the suspect until back-up or the warrant arrives.
It makes more sense to allow the inspection and get on with the day.
There's no difference between a game warden and any other deputized officer, they're bound by the same constitutional restraints as any other agency.
Illegal fish in a film cannister??

Just want to hopefully keep this short guys. Game Wardens have more rights than do Police Officers. They can search any car, boat, camper, etc. without probable cause. They can even search your house if there is "reasonable suspicion" that you are in possession of poached goods. Is it right to do this? Hell yes! Those of us that are honest shouldn't even bat an eye at the search, it is for the good and wellfare of our sport. When you buy an airline ticket you are subject to a search and x-ray before boarding the plane. If you refuse, You don't get on the plane. When you drive up to Canada and cross the border you are subject to a search as well as your vehicle. Refuse, and you don't cross the border. Buy a fishing license in Washington and you are subject to searches by Game Wardens. Refuse, and you lose your license.
Remember also, for every 5 polite people the Wardens contact there are 5 more that act like ***holes. Also, we are the eyes and ears of these Game Wardens. So, if you see someone poaching, snagging, etc. Spread the word to them when they are contacting you. Last but not least, if the Warden has a really bad attitude, complain to the State and they may be transfered or disciplined if enough complaints come in.
Also, the Game wardens aren't just limited to boat launches, shorelines, etc. They can stop your vehicle at any time on any highway without a reason. The Game Wardens will have to articulate in court though why they stopped you; so don't worry about it, the stop will be a good one. Hope I shed some light on this topic. Game Wordens and bounty hunters can do just about anything they want.

Happy New Year, everyone.

Generally, fish and game cops are constrained by the same constitutional requirements as regular cops.

That said, there are a couple of differences. First, WesF noted above that there is a RCW section that allows for a fishcop to check any and all things that you have with you in the field that are being used to attempt to take fish. This includes fish boxes, lockers, back of truck, under the seats in your boat. Even the back of your vest.

That law would not allow a fish cop to check a film canister for pot, as you're not fishing with it, and it couldn't hold a fish.

Just because a law says it's OK, that doesn't really necessarily mean that it's constitutional. There is another basis for this type of search.

On the bottom of your fishing license where you sign it, there is language to the effect that you agree to allow a fish cop to search you and your gear (which is generally known to include your truck and boat) when approached by a fish cop in the field, and to show him/her all your necessary licenses.

When I worked at the Attorney General's Office representing WDFW, this topic would occasionally come up. Legally speaking, all of the attorneys there were of the opinion that these searches were OK.

Lastly, I still feel that asking first would diplomatically make sense. Just because they have the right to do it doesn't mean they have to take full advantage of it. Personally, I would like to be asked if I would mind, and if I said no, then I'd expect to have them insist. I'd just like the opportunity to say yes.

Fish on...

Todd.

I agree with the point that the game wardens should be allowed to search your property. I have ran into 1 or 2 wardens with bad attitudes, but then I have ran a couple great ones, also. I am a fairly new fisherman, and I brought in my 1st salmon last year (13lb. Blackmouth). When I brought it up to shore, the game warden approached me, my dad, and my grandpa by telling us how beautiful the fish was. He even went as far as to clean the fish for me, and take 5 pics of the fish and gave them to me. He made the extra effort and left a lasting impression on me of how cool they can really be. More power to them

I am not sure of how your laws work, but in Minnesota and Iowa, the wardens can search your boat, vehicle, and/or house without a warrant. They have more rights than the cops do for search and seizure. They can have at it, as far as I am concerned. If you're flat out cheatin, you deserve to look over your shoulder. We are all going to make mistakes at some time, and probably get drilled (forget your liscense at home, not smash down a barb on a hook in your vest, screw up on some fish in a slot limit). When we screw up, we gotta pay for it. Shame on you for doing it a second time. A little manners would go a long way. The way a search is conducted can either make you appreciate the work they do, or make you feel like a criminal. Nuff said.

Here's a question for folks.

Say you're in a drift boat at the top of Plum's Landing. A warden walks down to the base of the boat launch and tells any and all boats within the distance of his voice to come on over to his shore so he/she can check licenses. Does one have to give up their fishing spot, pull anchor and be forced to go to the bank to get their license checked?

It's never happened to me,but I've heard stories of it happening to others. I've also heard this happening to bankies and having the warden on the other side of the river tell a person to come across the river to get their license checked. Obviously the river would have to be crossable at some near point (a bridge maybe?).

Whaddya think Todd? By law, do we have to comply or do we just pretned to be deaf and not hear the wardens hollering away at us?

"Sorry officer, I did not see you waving your arms or heard you hollering at me!"

Parker

What h

Hey PointnoPoint, Did this occur down at Narrows Marina? Jack

Good question, Parker.

A friend of mine was standing on a plunking spot that you could only get to by wading a little (about two steps) and was told by a fish cop to leave the spot and to come to shore to be checked. My friend told the fish cop to come to him if he wanted to see his license. So the cop went to his truck, got his waders, then waded out and checked my friends license. Then he went on his way.

I don't know how I would have responded to the fish cops request. I guess it would depend on my attitude, the cops attitude, and whether I thought I would lose my fishing spot (although I don't usually fish in places like that). I'm pretty sure I would just laugh if a cop told me to wade across a river to be checked. A creek maybe. As for pulling my boat over to be checked in mid-float, I don't know. Like I said earlier, I think it's okay at the take-out.

I'm with you Parker; I sure would like to hear a legal opinion on this one.

Stinkfoot out.

As to the last question, there has to be a line somewhere where you're outside their reach. My gut feeling is that if they expect you to cross the river because they're too lazy to do it themselves, then that's over the line.

If they want you to pull anchor and row to shore, I guess the particular circumstances would define if it is reasonable or not. Either way, I find it to be a pretty crappy thing to do. On the other hand, I also feel that enforcement presence is good for the resource and therefore good for us. I'd rather lose my spot once or twice a year than never see a game warden.

Fish on...

Todd.

Im a police officer and believe they have the right to do those types of searches. If when we signed for our lic. and it stated you are subject to searches of your boat or vehicle in the persuit of finding game violations, then im sory to say we signed away our right to not be searched without a warrant.

I know the local game agent out here and will ask to make everyone happy.

I have not got a reply from the WDFW yet, I will let everyone know what they say.

All of the police officers I have asked this question say the gamies do have the right to search anywhere without a warrant. That is fine with me, I do agree with the comments about getting searched now and then is preferable to not ever seeing a game warden and watching violaters walk scott-free.

I read over my fishing license the only statement I find on it regarding being searched is "I agree to show license, fish and game to a Department of Fish and Wildlife employee when requested." That does not sound to me like I gave up any rights rather, if they ask me I have to show them my fish and license.

Anyway, seems like there is a lot of confusion on this topic. I hope, if I get an answer, that this topic will be understood by all. It will make things easier on the game wardens and us.

Happp New Year and Great fishing!!!!

Doubletake

is there some rcw code that automaticaly is implied when buying a license because i know on my license it only states, i agree to show license,fish and game to a department of fish and wildelife employee when reguested does this mean the seceatary that works in the office also