I think the map shows no nets outside of the boundary as there are many nets fishing inside.

The map appears to show the western fishing boundary, so I would assume that legal nets would be inside (east of) this boundary as klb suggests.

Little update. QIN are getting about 1 to 1 on Coho & Chinook today. Chinook are down from first set two weeks ago but still plentiful. The QIN drift net fishers were doing a short net in main channel earlier as everything was right up the middle. Set nets picked up and now the drifters are a full spread as the Coho run to the edge on the mud flats & set nets picking up. So Coho appear to be picking up.

Down and dirty. On the Chehalis where the house fell in the river watch out. There is a well head that came with it and you can hit it at low tide or more. Not sure just how high it has to be to miss. One boat hit it & damaged the boat and the operator was injured so beware of it guys.

Knowing what I do about the "area in question", that boat/operator should not be going at any speed to do damage to the boat......should have been running 30 - 40 feet to the east.

At low water, the pipe is 2-3 above the surface, during a minus tide even more.

The current owners told me they tried to pull it out, but it was a "no can do"......they did mention a diver and going down at low slack, and cutting it off...........but like many things $$$$$$$ dictate, what can be done.

I'll try and take a picture, Sunday.....but it a "hold over tide" so maybe it might be a "no show"....

On to fishing and Grays Harbor first. At the end of the last setting the QIN were modeled at 16261 for Coho & 5673 for Chinook. Keeping in mind that they pulled for week 40 so Chinook numbers may be back in line as they went way over in week 39. Now the but it looks like they were high on Chinook again in week 41. Coho? They got some but they are not showing as forecast. The QIN modeled for Coho at 12420 this coming week it will really show us what is up.

So to the question why are not the numbers harvested available? Evidently the QIN are not talking to WDF&W again. Rumor has it that several of the tribes are doing this but I do not know for certain. This dance has been going on for some time now so we fly blind. One thing for certain is the 158052 forecast appears to be wayyyyyy off and coming up short. The thing is outside of harvest reporting and monitoring there is few options to determine what is truly going on with the salmon runs in GH. QIN are not talking and WDF&W has done zip to keep track of GH harvest so we do the Russian Roulette bit again. The harvest seasons ( everyone's ) are set off preseason forecast so all will fish to that regardless of the fact it is apparent that the forecast was loony tunes. My guess as of today? About 30% of forecast which is 47415 which gives us around 16000 harvestable not the 126696 modeled.

What does this mean? In GH it appears we are on auto pilot from the agency side and it appears only the QIN know what is going on. When the wailing starts everyone remember that.

Now Willapa. I have resisted getting drawn into this cat fight but it appears that a lot has been going on with the net fisheries. Staff have been doing scale & DNA testing and the numbers are quite a eye opener for some. It has been resulting in restrictions ( reduced days ) on Chinook impacts and again few Coho showing. The research supposedly resulted in additional Chinook impacts allowing additional NT Net time.

So to the question of the changes in available for harvest numbers, nope I do not know. The agency has been getting harvest numbers up on their website and other information but the conversations have been kept inside process with the Willapa Advisers, such as they are and zippo on information from this source also. What about the public who participated in the new policy process and Rec fishers? Gibbs rule 51, staff only reaches out when they want or need something. We the public are just part of their job as in the crafting of the WMP not the implementation. I suggested that they use Steve's contact list from the GH & WMP process just to get the information circulated and that ah, was not well received. As a Rec GH Adviser I can honestly say in many ways in Willapa & GH it is business as usual.

Keep in mind last time a Rec Adviser yipped about accountability ( just happened to be the GH Bay fishery ) staff shut that fishery down. Documents obtained in a PDR request later showed staff had about zero information other than lots of boats. Just happened that lots of boats had few fish caught so everyone is rather tight lipped to avoid a Yogi moment, "Déjà vu all over again"

It is what it is.

Just wanted to add a few more to DEAD chinook numbers, the guys fishing bait below fuller are doing there fair share at killing the chinook lots of dead fish laying on the bottom from there little c+r [Bleeeeep!]. They possibly might be floating out the satsop but its sure sad. 6 or 8 boats doing nothing but bobber and eggs today.
Drifter what you seeing down around the pump house ? Everybody wants chinook to make it to the gravel to spawn not to just be river nutrients. Wouldn't hurt my feelings a bit to see a bait restriction from monte up. Oh but we are just fishing jacks i call [Bleeeeep!].

Well to be honest you should be seeing dead fish for heavens sake. 227 in fresh water, 451 in the bay, and NT net 170 all from C&R. Then you have the natural mortality which in many years is substantial due to environmental conditions, then you have the fish that are injured in the QIN nets that usually die off upstream Porter down. That folks are using bait that has some mortality is normal. It would have been higher if the NT Nets had been fishing using recovery boxes which do not recover, when they use them that is. So morts in a river with catch & release is normal. Difference between that and other fisheries is you see them but in marine to much water.

With the C&R rates and net drop out both tribal and NT we will kill somewhere around 1500 Chinook that end up on the bottom. Now if ones thoughts are we get rid of C&R so not to offend ones sensibilities ........... good luck on that one.

Not a good year for me, some fishermen doing better.....many worse. I have not caught an adult Chinook, 1 smelly jack that went back in, some Chinook are being caught all were released.....most quickly. Did see a guide boat doing the bobber and eggs bit.....not my place to lecture on the river.

Twitching works, for adults and eggs for jacks in the fast water.....many VERY SMALL jacks, so I've bagged the jack fishing for this year.

I'm not one to get too wrapped up in how people are fishing and what they're honestly targeting, but I have a couple thoughts/comments on the guys fishing eggs. I spent a few days bobbing around near the pump houses last week. I saw pretty light crowding for the most part. The line of bank anglers at the hole next to the old farm house were mostly fishing eggs, and (from what I saw) were catching almost entirely jacks. I did see an adult coho or two caught. I'm sure, considering the sheer numbers of kings staging in that part of the river, that they are getting an adult chinook every so often as well, but I personally didn't see any of those caught, so I doubt they're doing much damage.

The guides, on the other hand (as well as a few locals who primarily fish eggs anyway), are probably killing some kings. The coho fishing has been very hit and miss (mostly misses), and being under constant (if unspoken) pressure to put clients on fish, some of the guides seem to be running eggs to give their clients the best possible odds of hooking something. From talking to a couple of them, I learned that they were getting a coho or two for each client. That's certainly a lot better than I did fishing spinners and jigs in the same water, which I suppose validates their strategy from a productivity standpoint. Still... I have to think they've had more than a handful of wild kings swallow those eggs, especially considering the spots they were focusing on.

If we're serious about reducing the chinook impact (which is what usually determines our opportunity), we probably should take a serious look at the impacts associated with allowing anglers targeting coho to fish eggs in the tidal Chehalis. There's no doubt that eggs are the most proven bait/lure out there, but when they are the overwhelming favorite presentation for a species we're trying NOT to catch, perhaps we should use something different.

As has been said, many times and many ways, the coho fishing is pretty tough for the most part.

A little more information. WDF&W posted the first week QIN harvest numbers. Chinook were modeled at 1628 and they got 3078. Coho modeled at 2321 and they got 556. Keeping in mind they pulled in week 39 it might come back in line with predicted impacts, might being the key word. Week 40 has yet to be posted so we wait but for those who have been keeping tabs on Coho it appears that the 25 to 30% estimate ( actual 24% harvested ) of Coho runsize forecast is still moving forward. Nothing to do but wait but frankly if the pattern holds R-6 will have one hell of a decision to make as between Rec & QIN harvest not much will be available for NT Nets. Interesting to watch this play out.

As the fall salmon seasons have continued many have questions on, well about everything. So what gives? The simple answer is business as usual but that would be correct and incorrect. In Willapa the agency has been in a all out effort to attempt to begin to truly quantify Commercial impacts rather than just run on auto pilot but in Grays Harbor not so. As things unfolded I have tried to get information out as best I can but the agency has struggled. Sure up on WDF&W's website harvest numbers are being posted along with other information but as to processes underway. but not much else. In Willapa much has been going on behind the scenes with just about zip put out to the public as to what is going on. It is conference call time thing with Advisers & not much else. I have suggested, asked, nearly demanded that this practice stop but with little success. I even urged to use the contact list from the GH & Willapa policy processes to just E mail simple updates out but this is such a departure from how Fish Program works that it does not appear to have gained much traction. Ah that is wrong, it went nowhere so far maybe ( hope hope ) later. So here is what I have gathered up from other observation & folks.

In GH from the start the QIN schedule appeared a bit aggressive, in particular with Chinook. Then from the beginning the Chinook numbers went well past what we should see. Week 38 the QIN hit nearly double what was expected and pulled for week 39. Coho started slow and do not appear to be catching up. In fact it appears to well short of the 158K forecast. That immediately begs the question why not pull back as they did in week 39? Because the seasons are set on preseason forecast of the 158K and all harvest to it. All folks Rec, Tribal, NT Nets. It is more or less auto pilot time in Grays Harbor. So at this minute it appears Chinook came early, in large numbers, and continued through the modeled weeks so far. Then this folks, we only have week 38 reports of QIN harvest and Rec observation as there is apparently some problem with getting QIN harvest numbers. So it appears Chinook doing OK but again it depends how many were taken in the QIN fisheries. Remember last year the Chinook looked normal then just dropped of the map resulting in a failure to make escapement AGAIN and there was no way WDF&W or the QIN could have caught it until too late which is why auto pilot management really really stinks up the place. It appears Coho are in the dumpster big time but again it is Rec observation & only week 38 ( which is early for Coho ) reports. Now Chum have been encountered since early September which is strange. Too early to make any call on Chum.

Now Willapa is different. With the state managing the show ( no tribal ) it is much different, in fact a total departure from the past. With one exception and that is it is being done with little information provided to the general public which is ABSOLUTELY NORMAL for Fish Program which has just used any public participation or dispersing of information as a " dog & pony show ". So what's up? Well the agency has made a all out effort to get the harvest & escapement numbers right. This includes DNA testing, intense observer monitoring of harvest, and stream surveys of some sort. The DNA testing resulted in some changes for the Chinook harvest but has helped staff truly know just what fish was being caught by who where. Right out the door the Commercial impacts on NOR's ( wild ) went due South in a New York minute. Test fisheries showed them continuing to bump up against the NOR cap endangering the Commercial Coho fishery in the first two weeks of November. Then comes Chum which are limited to 10% impacts due to past years failure to make escapement. I mean then comes the Chum EARLY resulting in the Commercials blowing through numbers again so now by advocating the Chinook harvest thus far the Commercials have put their Coho season at risk restrained by Chinook & Chum.

Add to the mix in the Naselle we had a die off of Chinook of substantial numbers. It was a natural thing and unfortunate but nature does that. The key to this? It is not in the model so now how do you manage around it for both Rec & Commercial? No idea but it will challenge R-6 to be sure.

Then the final shoe to drop. Just as in GH the Coho run is not materializing as forecast. So how do you have a Commercial Coho fishery constrained by Chinook at the front end of the run timing and Chum at the back end? Coupled with the Naselle Chinook die off ? No idea again but we will see after the next Willapa test fishery.

Some odds and ends that are out and about. As to R-6 management being gone on vacation in the middle of fall salmon season. Yup Fish Program's Manager Steve Thiesfeld was gone and it is a 100% load of something to unload on him for that. He won a hunting trip that was a chance of a lifetime and took it and Mr. Scott stepped in to deal with Willapa to insure continuity. Yes I know in the past this was not the case but that was then and this is now. Mr. Thiesfeld is back hobbling around ( he was injured on his trip ) doing his best to catch up so you folks might want to cut him some slack on this issue.

As to the question as to why the Willapa numbers are taking such a drastic departure from the past? Accountability plain and simple. Prior to the Willapa Policy the effort to insure correct selective fishery harvest information was little more than a token effort. Think of it this way. With the 2T Commercial exclusion many of the dead Chinook not counted in the past or even recognized went right into the bay and staged. Then we start the Commercial season and from the get go the hatchery / NOR ( wild ) mix was way wrong with the NOR limitations growing fast. Then it appears the Chinook run came back larger than expected adding more NOR to the mix. But you say more hatchery also so it should be a wash. Yup except it rained early the hatchery fish headed instream. This is the rub proportionally a far greater percentage of the hatchery Chinook come early with the NOR peaking later. You now have the perfect storm as Chinook harvest modeled will not track true. For Mr. Thiesfeld this is a no win thing if ever there was one so we wait. I could be wrong but doubt if we will know until the end so as always more to come here also.

Then last but not least this harvest accountability thing. For many years the Chehalis inriver fishers noticed a pattern of runsize that did not fit the model. Model says not nets XXX number of adults would come through in that time frame but way more showed than modeled. Did not seem to matter if it was QIN or NT Commercial but it was most dramatic with the NT's to be sure. Now this accountability thing applies to the Rec fisheries also as the preseason modeling does not reflect effort only similar harvest impacts from previous years.

So this year being retired I and others started tracking this thing and folks no way no how did we this coming. So let's do it fishery by fishery. The Rec bay fishery has been OK but few Coho. This resulted in a disproportionate mix of Coho / Chinook made worse by the apparently larger return of Chinook than anticipated and less Coho resulting the likelihood of more mortalities than modeled. Which means our anticipated C&R numbers are not going to be correct. The accountability thing is important as this fact as the agency has zero ability to get a true picture of how much as they were focused on Willapa.

Next up the drift net fisheries both QIN and NT Commercial with the NT's yet to hit the water. I think right here is the issue and it is Pinnipeds! I watched three tribal drift boats working above and below the 101 bridge and the Pinnipeds wailed on them. It was not that this happened but rather how bloody many fish they got that surprised me. The drifts started a little below Lakeside and pulled prior to the bridge. Each time the boats pulled and went up to start over the Sea Lions went right with them and drifted down with them. I would watch 5 to 10 fish come up over the bow but here is the rub. The Sea Lions got one or more for every two the boat did. You easily count as they come up flipping the fish around feeding and the Gulls are right there also. Here is the thing while all fisheries have a dropout rate or C&R a release mortality it does not cover this. After faithfully watching this for most of the season so far I can safely say without a doubt that the drift net impacts both QIN & NT unseen & unaccounted for are far greater than anyone has admitted to. Folks we have a real problem here. In a Public Document Request one document was comments from a WDF&W Observer on a Willapa drift netter in which he identified that for every fish that was brought into the boat a Seal or Sea Lion got one. This is a problem in both GH & Willapa.

QIN set nets. Again I was surprised by the difference between reality and perception. The set nets loose fish the same as nets to Pinnipeds but way less. Unattended the Seals get less than I thought as they do not seem to like dead fish that much. Lots of fish the fisher stays with the net and picks them rapidly to avoid being robbed by Seals. So where I always had assigned blame for the unseen mortality to the set nets I was not just wrong but not even close. The QIN fishers do need to quit leaving the nets unattended for such long periods of time though.

Now inriver tide water we have issues also. I have lost three Coho & three Chinook so far to seals with thirteen Coho punched. That is a 23% rate for Coho and it is not accounted for in the modeling. Sure we have a mortality rate but it is not near that. Additionally the three Chinook I released before they got fifty feet from my boat a Seal got one and was in hot pursuit of the others. The thing that impressed me is the way that the Recs have really tried to do Chinook releases properly. Little of the photo op thing ( mostly ) dragging the fish around in the boat to get that photo of catch of the day. Not bad guys. Upstream some issues but it revolved around a few fishers and no enforcement around as they are stretched pretty thin. That said one officer found the time to hassle the low income folks behind Wal-Mart which frankly is the LEAST abusive fishery. Could have made better use of his time I think.

THE NT NETS GO IN FROM 7 to 11:59 Tomorrow in front of the QIN. So be warned folks it could be weird with REC Tribal & NT all in the boat launches at once. This by the way is something that WDF&W staff were told is inherently dangerous and ill advised. They chose to disregard the advice so as I said folks be careful it is about to get weird.

Wow... So much for 4-3, eh? It was nice while it lasted. I'm sure the salmon were benefiting, too...

Riddle me this: We're concerned about an apparent crash in coho numbers, and the correct course of action is to put MORE gillnets in the water????

NT piece fits within the 4-3 framework.

Lack of coho is predominantly due to.... LACK OF COHO!

I didn't mean to imply that the single NT fishery, in and of itself, violated the spirit of the guideline, eyeFISH. I guess my concern was that, between the QIN fishery and the NT fishery, as of Wednesday at noon, gillnets will have been choking off the entire basin for 13 out of 17 days (or something very close to it). 4 out of 17 days doesn't seem like much of a fighting chance for a run of fish that appears to be coming in far below the forecast that justified scheduling the fisheries, nevermind how unfair it is to the in-river anglers.

Short and sweet. The Willapa Ginetters legal action got the boot!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2tWjgmgVy3ySHNHdkZrTTB2RlE/view?pli=1

Yee HAW!

On another note, Ron Warren has been promoted to Asst Director, Fish Program.

That makes him the states top fish manager, second in command behind Unsworth at WDFW.

Let's hope Unsworth doesn't make Warren his right hand man... we'll be back to square one in short order if he does.

Past performance and attitude towards recs does not give me much confidence in him. My impression from early Greys' Harbor management meetings showed me he supported Phil Anderson at every turn, which means conservation and recreation issues are NOT a priority to him. Bob R