Tuno? You've got to be kidding me. Tuno?!
www.nofishing.net

I'm myself had turned to "birding" on two different floats on the upper Quinalt this March. It was quite a joyous and spititualy uplifting experience. At least that's how I explained it to my partner because of the lack of any other action?#@!

P.E.T.A., people eating tasty animals. Those shrub eating folks need to get a life.

They do have a life. They were the main push behind getting hound hunting and leg traps banned here. Next is bow hunting. Think of the impact some little bambi twisting on the ground with an arrow stuck in it will have on the general public. We shouldn't take the lightly.

Fishhead5

One of peta's core beliefs is that domestication of animals is wrong and in order to correct the imbalance all current domestic animals should be euthanized. I read that in some of their literature several years ago.

This is the attitude I am talking about and some others too.
How can you go tell the public about WSC when you bash some one else for their beliefs.
It is just like other people bashing C&R they don't care and attitudes like this will not help save wild Steelheads. You have to be open minded if you want people to listin to you. You don' t have to agree but let them say what they want. No, I am not a PEta supporter, but they have the rights to their belief. Don't bring up rummors if you dont want them to say the same thing about you or your cause.

Well Divers, do you remember the whole Linda McCartney add? She went on to relate how fishing was a horrible passtime due to the pain inflicted by us awful anglers on those poor, defenseless fish. Perhaps we should all just cave in and eat nothing but raw veggies and wear hemp clothes.

The problem with peta, is that they have a membership of over 1 million, with numerous
high profile people backing them and a whole
lot of money. It is one of those cases that even though they are the minority, they have the backing to get what they want. We all need to keep our eyes and ears open to what they are trying to do!

I have problems with PETA and have no problem bashing them in the public because they use 'pseudoscience' to spread their propagand.

I have had more then a couple heated conversations with freinds of mine that say C&R fishing is evil and wrong because not only do the fish suffer but MOST OF THEM DIE! When I asked them to cite their evidence they said nofishing.net. I checked it out and its just blatant unsupported remarks so that they may achieve what they want. That is why I hate PETA!!

I will be open about it. Ijust falt out hate them. Stupid tree huggers. God put us at the top of the food chain for a reason.

I'd stand behind some of their views on commercial fishing. I'm not too sure their all there upstairs. Most of the fish targeted by sport fishermen are fish raised for sporters to catch. They have every right to express their ideals. Bottom line these bone heads haven't a frikin chance of doing a damn thing. The government makes too much money off us killing MEANIES :p :p . Just laugh boys its suppost to be funny right? J.C.B

Hey Rich and others my point exactly.
You don't agree so it is ok to bash and say things. It has nothing to do with caving in or giving up. It has to do with respect and let them have their opinion. There is a difference between bashing and questioning.
Yet we don't like it when people bash us for C&R. Yes, there are many out there who don't believe what people on this board believe.
We have a right to our opinion and they do to. You want the general public to help support the cause of C&R and not buy wild fish but what is the difference when Greenpeace has problems with other issue or PETA . Let them say what they want and let the general public fourm their own opinion. Just as what we do and want. People will follow which ever cause they believe but bashing other beliefs will not help. I think history proves that.

Divers,

I agree with you that unbridled bashing is unproductive, and unfair not to allow people or groups to publicly state their opinions. But don't mistake a strong challenge to claimed 'facts' as bashing; especially if it turns out the claims are not correct! They need to be strongly challenged. One example was expressed; that PETA claimed a majority of C&R'd fish die off. Several fish biologist studies have shown more than a 90% overall survival rate for C&R'd anadromous fish even with improper release techniques counted in. With the amount of angler education on proper release techs that has been available in recent years, and with C&R nate fishermen among the best at proper release techniques, some crediabl fish biologist's educated estimates indicate that over 95% of C&R'd anadromous fish survive capable of spawning. The most extetnsive study on C&R affects was performed by the ODFW the last 2 years under observation by the NMFS (National Marine Fisheries Service) by allowing several of Oregon's best sled guides taking clients above the fishing deadline below Willamette Falls to fish on thousands of stacked up spring chinooks; acclimating before ascending the fish ladders. Hundereds of these fish were caught and released both years, using a wide variety of released methods and tagged thusly - including abusive handling prior to release. This was an immensely important study because the States and NMFS used the resultant data in negotiating an allowance for us to be sportfishing the Columbia springers this year; C&Ring non-clipped fish right now out there (most of which are hatchery, but include the important nates to protect). The results of this extensive study proved a 93% survival rate for these fish that had to then ascend large long fish ladders and swim way up the Willamette Valley to upper tributary hatcheries. Significantly, they found a very high survival ratet of fish that took baited hooks deeply and the line was simply cut close to the fish. What they did discover is the treble hooks, on such as Warts and Kwikfish, that were taken deeply (not the majority of ones hooked shallow) had the highest mortality from fishers yanking out the deep treble hooked fish; which most fishers do to save a $5 lure. Even those deep treble hooked and yank out C&R'd fish, and tagged thusly, had a high enough survival rate to allow the use of trebles on the current Columbia springer season occuring now. I still believe that when fishing rivers with lots of steelie nates present we shouel be using barbless siwash hooks instead of the trebles. But those big strong springers seem to handly it pretty well, accordingly to factual and obtainable data; not the common guessing that occurs in these types of debates. .....

As for fish feeling pain, studies show that fish receptor nerves do send pain impulses to thier pea sized brains. What you won't find in these studies that the PETA and anti C&R types present is the opinion of many fish bios that the fish don't really perceive pain during C&R because they are in a state of ultra concentrated instinctual retreat. It's the same as you hear from many hikers that have been attacked by bears - they claim to not have felt anything when having chunks bitten out of there legs. That's because their minds hyper focus on survival is such that it overides any pain sensation; same for the fish. And the fish don't have large hunks of flesh torn from their bodies, they have a small hook removed quickly, and they swim off quickly. Any sore mouths must short termed or quickly forgotten because many C&R'd fish are caught more than once in the same day. In any event, this so-called pain factor is an overstated point to attain shortsighted agendas by these misguided people! It's the same principle with hunting animals. Bullets hurt. Maybe, but most animals likely don't feel it when they either fall unconscience immediately or run with concentrated escape focus. And we could also argue credibly that if we didn't thin out fish and game numbers they would have to suffer much longer or much more horrible painful deaths by starvation or being eating alive by a prediator (seals and cougars). We save herds of deer and elk from that terrible long suffering in reality. ...

I wish those mentally challenged and shortsighted groups were as concerned with pain control of very ill humans that are laying in bed with plenty of time and focus on terrible pain that they aren't distracted from! ... Maybe sending copies of this post and others like them to PETA to educate them, and more importantly to educate those PETA could influence against sportsmen would be helpful for our cause.

I understand and agree with what you are saying RT. I am no expert on what PETA or Green peace do or believe. My whole point I guess was to say let them say what they want and challenge them if it is needed or to correct anything. My thing is sportsmen in this area seems to get a little attention other then negitive, mostly. So why have some a$$ confirm that we are bunch whinners and bashers. I guess being diplomatic has got me to get my messege across more then being rude or over bearing.
To bring up another story, I think most people here in seattle knew about or heard about the Commercial vessel in Alaska going down recently ( M/V Artic Rose). There was a lot of sympathy for the fishermen and family but there was some comment made by some yahoos saying something to the affect of who cares thats just less fish being harvested and now there will be more more us ( refering to sporties). Comments made like this gives us sporties a bad name. Few bad apples can make a situation worse.
I was a commercial fishermen for 11 years of my life, and it has been now 2 years since I got out. I understand their reasons but I also know the damage caused by certain companies and the importance of restoring what we have left.
I was taught not too long ago or you can say educated on the importance of saving wild fish. Now I am a big time pusher of this.
So people can change but with right attitudes.

peta is out of there god damn mind!!!!!


FISH ON!!!

[ 04-06-2001: Message edited by: curt ]

Femfisher, you don't have to listin. No one is making you do anything.
When you come home from work and get annoying telemarketer call do you cave into there demands?
No, you deceide what you want to do.
Like I said before this has nothing to do with PETA or any one group but how we represent ourself to educating the public and to come off as some one you want to listin to, not a beligerent idiot.
And where to you get that I am saying that WSC is in it for the money. I support their belief and C&R. Maybe you need to read between the lines.

[ 04-06-2001: Message edited by: Divers ]

Sure the PETA freaks have a right to their opinion. Just because they are COMPLETELY WRONG!!!! doesn't have to make you hate them. They have just been duped and misguided. It's up to us and those like us to (Re-Educate) them. I suggest the first thing we do is round up every last one of the whining freaks and put them on a slow boat to Kampuchia. That's Cambodia for the historicaly challenged amoung us. I understand there are a few re-education camps going un-used out in the country side. They wouldn't have to worry about eating thier fellow creatures out there either. The only food available is what they can grow.
Wow, I need a blood pressure pill.
Before any one takes offense to this post and launches a flamer, please go to your dictionary and look up the definition of the word Hyperbole.
Just my $0.02