I think that I speak for the majority here when I say that we do not hate anyone in this situation. We just hope that they can pick themselved up by their bootstraps and move on with reality.

It's not about hatred at all, Jim. It's about the fact that most tribes take advantage of every tax paying American, to the fullest extent that they can get away with, in the name of their 'heritage', and it's wrong.
Their ancestors, who I respect, are turning donuts in their collective graves as they watch what the current generation of tribal 'leaders' does. All their ancestors ever wanted was a place where they could continue to live their life, without being disturbed by other people with different cultures and views.
As I said before, times change. You either adapt, and change with them, or you cling to the past, and get left behind. Casinos, leaving nets in the water for a week or more without pulling them, tax free tabacco products, the list goes on and on.

Is this really indian 'heritage'? I think not.

Duck, Ya know...... I dont really care if it comes across as hatred. I hate em! It's not so much a matter of race as it is the special rights that have been afforded to the indians BECAUSE of their race. If an Indian's only crime was the fact that he was born Indian, then hell no I wouldn't hate him! But, when you add all of the other B.S. up, the nets, the free land, the money, etc. and then throw in the fact that the Indians are not one bit greatfull for all they recieve..... They just expect it! Well,

Duck, Ya know...... I dont really care if it comes across as hatred. I hate em! It's not so much a matter of race as it is the special rights that have been afforded to the indians BECAUSE of their race. If an Indian's only crime was the fact that he was born Indian, then hell no I wouldn't hate him! But, when you add all of the other B.S. up, the nets, the free land, the money, etc. and then throw in the fact that the Indians are not one bit greatfull for all they recieve..... They just expect it! Well, then yeah, I hate them. I hate them for what they do, not for what they are. Is that racist? I dont really care if it is.

...which is why I used the word "majority" and not "everyone".

My dad was a commerical fisherman. He changed careers years ago based on this same situation. No one sent him through school? A good friend 'was' a faller in Randall. He now sells insurance. The Indian Nation needs to adapt just like everyone else. They have many more opportunities than most whitemen do. The problem is they have never learned to do this apart from government help. They are totally dependant on government and can't seem to show much self initiative. They may be proud but their not soverign!

A cattle prong.

What more motivation do you need?

You know Duck, maybe you should change the magnifying glass in your hand to a mirror.

As a majority in these day and times, not many groups can rival that of the Native American with the "blessings" God has shown them. God also punishes those who are not humble and selfish.

It's time to enact "Tough Love" and I'm not talking about prison shower scenes either. Either you adapt or you get read about in history books. Need the names Incan, Mayan, or Aztec be brought up as examples?

I just joined this site. This is intense! You guys don't mess around. It's kinda funny comin' into this cold, scrollin' down and reading all these passionate exchanges. "Man [is] a weird vain beetle full of strange ideas walking around upsidedown and boasting..." -Jack Kerouac
I say live and let live. The Lummis have a pretty good program working to restore fish habitat. I know some Lummis that I respect, and I've seen some that I don't respect --same goes for whites I've known and seen. Generalizing and stereotyping is counterproductive, and carrying a lot of hate around in your head will just give you a headache.

Eventually, there will be NO MORE FISH for us or them. Then what will they do? They better figure out something fast.

I dont care what they say about the environment, pollution, el nino, la nina, it is all a bunch of B.S.
It is very hard to get anything accomplished when the WDFW is sleeping with the Indians. TRIBAL RIGHTS my BUTT.

As my friends dad says, "we have no one to blame but our forefathers for not wiping them out when they had the chance."

That point of view is not my point of view so no GUFF.

I wish that the majority of those complaining would take a long and honest look at yourselves.
Being brought up the way they have, wouldn't you honestly do the same thing? You just want more fish for yourselves. Here we are again putting all the blame on the natives. Some of you are very shallow minded. You don't even take a peek at what it's really like to be born a native.
I'm sure they're all alike. I'm done. The Duck
Jim Marquis

I fish the Green/Duwamish a lot and I see the people who set up the nets on the Green. Most of them are not INDIANS. Why do these people have tribal rights? Probably because they are F'ing some chick that is a member of the Muckleshoot tribe.
They can kiss my bu**!

[ 11-09-2001: Message edited by: Carl Costenbader ]

Duck:

There are a number of Euro-Americans whose ancestors carried trades through the family for generations who, once they came to the sad conclusion that the family trade would no longer support their family, broke with tradition and instead went with trades that assured them that they would be able to feed and provide for their families.

We are not blaming anyone for the recent state of salmon fishing in the Northwest (let's hope that this year's record runs are a positive sign of things to come). We are merely bemoaning the Lummi tribe's attempt to garner public subsidization of a lifestyle that is no longer sustainable.

Who they are is irrelevant. What they are doing is the issue.

Very well put, Dave Jackson. That's exactly what I was trying to say, however, it seems that do not posess the same tact as you.

I have also been reading this post and wanted to express some other viewpoint that is not mentioned. From what I know of the Native American Culture, they relate to their natural surroundings not just as a 'way of life' but as part of their religion and belief system. While it certainly makes sense to find an alternative way to raise money to support one's family/tribe other than the 'hunter/gatherer' method that has been used in the past, the indians have a right to do the fishing as a part of their belief system.

I am not condoning whole sale netting of stocks of fish or diminishing the stocks so that others who have a right to enjoy fishing are not able to partake but simply trying to mention that it is more than just 'a way of support'.

It pains me to hear of netting fish just to be thrown away so that they can get the eggs and sell them. I think that their ancestors would be ashamed of this raping of another creature.

It pains me to see that tribes are searching for ways to get Federal support for this.....There is a prime example of a tribe that has overcome this need in the Tulalips. They have begun a campaign of attracting national retail chains to their reservation with access to off site residents of Washington by promoting the tax free status other benefits that our government has given them. I think that is great!!! There was a recent article that they are generating so much money for the tribe that 'traditional' methods of wage earning are being left behind. They can do this if the use the resources they have and I do not mean just natural resources.

I don't really think that anyone here really 'hates' the people just the actions that they are taking. Remember that there are as many or more non Native Americans doing things we dislike like 'snagging' as there are Native Americans netting. We must temper our dislike to some degree that as passionate as we are about our sport many Native Americans are passionate about their beliefs.

I would also like to point out that before 'white mans' appetite for Salmon became so great that we nearly wiped out the species so to speak, there were many healthy abundant runs of fish that were not affected by 'netting'from Native Americans. On the other hand, now that the stocks are so low, we all should be doing our best to support the runs. I would be willing to go so far as to suggest a total ban on fishing to some extent for everyone, commercial, private, Native and sport, to get the runs of fish back. But who else would be willing to????? It comes down to greed and selfishness. Once we get past that the fish will have a chance.

It is not who they are or what they are doing.
It is what they are ALLOWED to do that is the problem.