Everybody thinks the Quinalt river management which produces huge amounts of fish should be the model to follow.

Well I dont think so. Ive read some stuff that says the Quinalt has the most degraded wild stocks on the coast. It is thought that they system no longer has any pure strains of the true wild stocks left. This is due to poor hatchery practices and massive stocking to support the tribal fishery.

Take away the hatcherys and the bazillion fish of all species they stock and its nothin. to put it in a nutt shell its another Cowlits. But not quite as bad. Dosent have the dams so some fish still get to spawn in the upper river. Stock the amount of fish in any river that the Quinalts do in the Quinalt and you have the same thing.

The Quinalt system is a false representation of a healthy system.

The reason why im writeing this is because im upset. Look what has happened to the Humtulips ,who do you think did it and still is. what happened to the robust wild fish runs? Exploit other systems then call your own the model to follow when its artificial. Have you ever seen the Queets plugged off at the 101 bridge? who do you think is doing that? How many days a week through the peak of wild steelhead runs?

Say what you whant about what I just read but its the truth.

I don't know enough about the hatchery program protection of indigenous genetics in the Quinalt to have a strong opinion about that - yet. But particularly the nets are a super unfortunate scenario Rich. If not for the regular netting in the beautiful outer Olympic Peninsula rivers, they would be very much like the scenery and big runs of trophy fish in the rivers of the B.C. coastal ranges - such as the Bella Coola and the Dean rivers (except for a few more sportfishermen). A real shame!!!

Ill tell ya what there are still some unbelievably big Native Steelies and Kings that make it too the upper reaches but over time it has defenately dwindled with the current guide, net and sportfishing practices. The limits are huge on the res and the guides on the upper for the most part are Trophy (KILL) fisherman. Its not there fault really cause the state lets it all go down! But your right Rich once the genes are mixed and or gone it will be another Cowlitz!

On a good note! The upper (in the park) will always be closed! This is were alot of the True Big nates spawn (Kings and Steelies) and not many Hatchery fish go past the lake. So if we dont wait too long we will still have pure genes in the river. They must still run the gauntlit, but the ones that are making it are the ones we want! But if we dont watch it those will be gone and all we'll have is another Cow! Too bad it will take the Federal Goverment to really do anything! Buy then it will be too late!

Bob D

Hey RichG, It was my understanding that the Quinalt used native stocks for their hatchery operation? If this is true than I don’t see what the big problem is. Personally I don’t have a problem with hatcheries if they’re operated correctly and use the wild fish in that particular system. The Vedder in B.C. does this and they have an incredible run of fish along with all the pressure. And by the way, you get to fish way too much…I’m jealous. How many hatchery Steelhead have you gotten so far this year, you lucky dog!

Rich G,
I fished the Quinalt once and am one of those who
felt the run was pretty healthy, but if, like you say, they have poor hatchery practices, which I don`t know what you mean by that, (if they raise sickly fish or just have a high mortality rate or whatever) but if they have a high mortality rate, and I don`t if they do or don`t because I just flat out don`t know much about it, but where do they get the fish for the massive stocking you refered to?

RichG -It's no secret the Quinaults have a huge hatchery program and huge hatchery fish (selective breeding)

However, there is a month difference from the last of the hatchery spawning to the start of the wild spawning. The runs are seperate.

Both the Queets and the Quinault had double the WDFW escapemant goal last year. Both fisheries reduce days as the run becomes less hatchery.

If your upset with the Humptulips fish runs why don't you also include factors such as logging and historical sport catches of 3 fish limits. Could it be that you just want to look in one direction?

Rich,

Consider the difference between an opinion and an informed opinion. Yeah, I’ve got opinions about the Quinault and its management, but my information is limited to talking to a couple of biologists that used to work there. The hatchery model to follow depends on your hatchery objectives and the conflicts, if any, that a particular model has.

The Quinault Tribe used native wild fish as their broodstock source. That’s usually considered a good practice. I don’t know if they continue to mix wild fish into their broodstock or not. I was told they regard their hatchery and wild stocks as one, which is part of the reason they elect to not mark most of their hatchery production. So hatchery fish do spawn naturally in the Quinault, Queets, and tributaries. It would be helpful if you would identify the source where you read that Quinault wild fish are the most degraded stock on the coast. It could be true if hatchery and wild fish are interbreeding, and if the hatchery stock is so modified from its original condition that their reproductive efficiency is lowered. If the hatchery and wild fish are of the same stock, genetic pureness is only a function of reproductive fitness. Quinault hatchery practices may have preserved most of the genetic fitness for natural spawning. Or they may not. A judgement without supporting information isn’t worth much.

It’s true that the Quinaults stock a lot of hatchery fish in the Quinault and Queets. However, I don’t believe that if the stocking was discontinued there would be nothing left. The runs would decline by the amount of hatchery production, but significant salmon and steelhead runs would remain. I’m confident of that, not so much because of confidence in Quinault fishery management. Rather, I’m confident in the rain. Salmon and steelhead populations remain healthy on the OP for two major reasons. The headwaters of the rivers are protected in the national park. And it rains so much on the coast that every river is out of shape for both gillnet and recreational fishing for many days each fall and winter. And fortunately, thousands of fish swim upstream past the net fisheries (nets removed due to high water) and past the recreational fishery before the river is again fishable. And so the runs are preserved. Maybe not at the highest possible runsizes, but at nonetheless healthy levels.

I don’t know what the problem is on the Humptulips. But look at the obvious differences between it and the Quinault/Queets. Only small part of the river system heads in the national park. (Strike One) Humptulips salmon pass through a non-treaty gillnet fishery in Grays Harbor that Queets/Quinault fish don’t experience. (Maybe Strike Two?) Who runs the hatchery program on the Hump? (Another Strike?) And who sets the seasons and harvest limits on the Hump - WDFW and the Quinault Tribe (like mixing oil and water - Strike Three!) My guess is that if the Hump was stocked with hatchery fish as heavily as the Quinault, then the state and tribe would just fish it even heavier, and the formerly robust wild fish runs wouldn’t necessarily be any better off. I think the answer will be found in the differences in the systems rather than in the similarities.

BTW, just stocking that amount of hatchery fish in any river system won’t necessarily create the same thing as the Quinault. It most likely succeeds on the Quinault because they’ve got a moderately healthy (not pristine) environment to begin with, and their hatchery product may be superior to that used at other programs. So it’s a rush to judgement to say the Quinault falsely represents a heathy system. They may net the hell out of the Queets and Quinault, but both rivers achieved double their natural spawning escapement goals last spring I hear. So you’re upset because you believe the Quinaults are responsible for the condition of wild runs on the Humptulips? Maybe, but let’s have an informed judgement.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Salmo G,

I read it in a costal steelhead stock status NMFS report that gave a status off all systems from AK to Mexico.

Yes I am upset but I mostly wrote this to find out some opinions.