I have a Question for all of you.
Not to long ago, someone told me that after steelhead spawn and head back out to the salt water they swim backwards towards the sea due to the river flow, so they can keep breathing. I'm not sure what to make of it.
Does anyone know?

Hi I have often wached spawned out steelhead drifting downstream with their heads into the current.They arnt of course swimming they are simply conserving energy and allowing the current to drift them.
Periodicly they will rest behind rocks and will feed to replace theyr energy.This is the so called mending process. Depending on the abumdance of feed in the river they may spend some time gradually working downstream and mending.
These so called slinks or snakes are voratious feeders and will chase and strike at lures which resemble food They are hard fighters but are of cours useless as a food fish.
Lures such as stonefly larvae, deer mice immitations and salmon fry immitations are effective for slinks
coot

HEY NIK that sounds so funny i have to reply. i wonder how many cans he had when he told you that .

Nikk,

Coot has it right. Most species of fish are not designed to swim backwards. You might say they lack a reverse gear. Spent - spawned out - steelhead merely drift downstream, head into the current, as they make their way back to the saltchuck.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Well the steelhead drifting downdstream with their heads towards the current makes sense.
The guy that told me they swam backwards did have a few TOO many beers. but i think he meant drift back not swim...
Thanks

I have known a few steelheaders to Drift backwards after a few beers!

Fish swim downstream for short burst to reposition themselves.

Ultimate,

Fish do swim downstream by turning around and facing downstream (how else to make those long downriver runs). But they are in a forward gear, as it were, and not swimming backwards in reverse, as the original post seemed to suggest.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Salmo g,

That is what I meant. I have never seen a spent migration but I have spooked a few and seen them swim (head facing down stream) like a torpedo towards the ocean. Thanks for clarification and I enjoy your very informative posts. By the way I have read that only 30-50 percent of steelheads survive the migration. What do you know about this subject?

Thanks

Fifteen percent or less would be a more likely figure, although the numbers vary considerably from river to river. Those who survive are almost always hens, who head back downstream as soon as they've taken care of business, while the bucks hang around the redds, looking for another likely hen and fighting with each other. Some fish may survive to spawn as many as four times, though I seem to recall a reference to a hen who returned to a California hatchery for seven successive seasons. Among wild fish, repeat spawners are very important to the survival of the species because they produce far more eggs for a given body weight than first-time spawners and, while numerically inferior, may account for as much as twenty-five percent of the total of all of the eggs laid. By the way, fish that are returning for a second or third time are rarely any larger than at their first spawning. A year spent in the ocean is only about enough to return the fish to its original condition. The largest steelhead are those who spend three or more years in the ocean before returning to spawn for the first time.

Ultimate,

Like Preston says. Seems he and I read the same stuff and or talk to the same people.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Any body now how to fish backwards?It might make catching those poor worn out wonders,more interesting to catch.Give me a call tomarrow E.I'll be working on suby.

PS,

Thanks for the informative post. My numbers are like my fish, they expand quickly. Fifteen percent or less is not much. We should avoid targeting spent fish and instead give them a ride back! Also recall ten percent return for Atlantic salmon. Is that number off as well? Thanks.

As mentioned, the return rate of steelhead on second spawning runs the following year varies a lot from river to river. I did hear recently that combining studies have put the figure at around 10% repeat spawners. And of course, those are usually big fish! I am pleasantly suprised by that figure, because I recall many years ago of studies indicating it was around 5%. With 10% coming back despite the big increase in seal populations, that's a positive thing to hear.

RT

I read once that those fish that perish in the spawning process do so because of heart failure. Maybe we could feed them Lipitor prior to spawning.

Ok, I found my notes. I guess my numbers may be correct and we may have been comparing apples and oranges. It shows 30-50% survive the migration back to the ocean which is the number I recalled when I first posted and then it shows only 1/3 of those survive to come back (repeat spawners). One third of 30-50% is 10 to 16.7 percent which is in the range of what RT is saying (10%) and what PS is saying (15%). Based on this the numbers of repeat spawners get smaller and smaller every year.

If we start with 10000 (1st time spawning) fish

1st time spawners = 10000

survive back to ocean is 30-50% of 10K which is 3000-5000 fish.

2nd repeat spawner is 1/3 of that which is 1000-1667 (average 1333)

survive back to ocean is 30-50% of 1333 which is 400-666

3rd time spawner is 1/3 of that which is 133-222 (average 177)

based on this only 177 out of original 10000 are 3rd time spawners which is only 1.77% and the number is going to get smaller for 4th time spawner and so on.

I am sure it is a lot more complex than this linear and primitive model but thats what the article shows. So if you didn't catch that 30 lbs fish don't worry the odds are against you and if you do, don't harm her!

UFK, (make sure those letters are in the right order!),

The great majority of repeat spawners are female, and they don't get much bigger, if they get any bigger at all, than they were on their first trip to the spawning grounds. If they were ten pounders the first time, they'll be about ten pounders the second, or third, time.

With bucks, it's a bit different. First off, only a minute fraction of them survive for a repeat spawn. But those that do may continue to grow throughout their lives.

Here's a story from the Dec./Jan. 2001 STS, about the Coquille River broodstock program. A hatchery fish, buck, was caught that weighed 25.5 pounds. Scale studies showed that the fish had first returned as a 2-salt 7 pounder, then as a 15-17 pounder the next year, then in its fifth year returned as a 25.5 pounder.

I don't know if that's typical among bucks that do make the return trip or not, since it's really the only one I've ever heard of being studied.

I think the main factor controlling steelhead size is how many years they spend in the ocean before returning for their first spawn, 2, 3, 4, or even five years. That, of course, combined with the ocean conditions while they are out there.

Does anyone know if ocean conditions play a part in how long a fish stays out? If conditions are good, will they "mature" faster and come back in two years, or will they take advantage of the good conditions and stay out for three or four years, figuring that the bigger and stronger they are, the more successful they'll be spawning?

Fish on...

Todd

Todd,
I don't think so, some fish just seem to be programmed genetically to spend more years in the salt than others. Skamania-stock summer runs seemed to have a high proportion of three-salt fish and, at least in the North Fork of the Stilly, they used to come back early, in May and June. Another factor that relates to size is how long the juveniles remain in fresh water and at what size they smolt. I recall reading somewhere that many of the bigger fish in the Skeena drainage don't migrate to the ocean until they are six years old and they are proportionately larger when they do so. Lots of variable factors.

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: Preston Singletary ]

Yeah, Preston, those are the same things I had heard. It makes sense that a fish that had stayed in the river longer, gotten bigger and wiser, would be able to pack on the pounds faster and easier upon hitting the saltchuck. Combine that with a fish that stays out for three or four years instead of two and I suppose you've got a recipe for BIG fish.

Though I'm sure that the "decision" to stay in the river longer is mainly genetic, the environment that those genetics developed in probably had more carcasses in it than the environment does now. I'd think that the current, more sterile, environment would select against fish that spend longer in streams.

That's an aspect of "seeding" rivers with carcasses, or (gasp!) letting more fish spawn and die in the river, that I hadn't thought about before. Smolts in seeded streams are certainly bigger and stronger when they leave, but it seems that such an environment would also encourage mulit-year stream residence prior to out-migration, perhaps resulting in bigger fish.

Hmmm...anyone heard of any research on that one?

Fish on...

Todd.
Fish on...

Todd.