Well, the topic has to rear its ugly head now and again. However, it never ceases to amaze me at how near sighted some are when adressing the topic of tribal and non-tribal netting. Besides generalizing the topic to the point that it sounds like half the cast of Deliverance is yee-hawing about something they think they are experts in, they come off sounding like racist idiots.

I think the posts that string together a bunch of racially motivated slurrs and generalizations does more to threaten the integrity of the sportsmen and the sports interests than anything.

Call me a "p**sy" if you want, but shallow minded near sighted comments that have been previously posted should be left to conversations in somebody's garage with people of like thought train.

Wouldn't it be great if our kids got to feed off hatred such as this by going to a website based on a sport that conveys info a fun, healthy outdoor sport. While I don't agree with the netting in the rivers and do think the rights are over exercised, I'd like for my stepson to be able to develop his own ideas on the topic by being presented with rational arguments from both sides. Not pick up a batch of racial hate messages based on who's got the right to the fish from a fishing website.

I'd hate to have to not be active on this board because I enjoy 99% of the messages, camaraderie, and information that is transmitted between members. However, if this is the type of crap that starts getting tossed around it won't be worth it to me to be involved.


While we are banning the nets how about banning all bait fishing in rivers where the wild steelhead runs, native salmon, and coastal cutts are struggling? If we are that concerned about our fish runs shouldn't sportfishing techniques which impart a greater risk of fish mortalitiy be put by the wayside? I suppose everyone who wants all methods of catching salmon and steelhead banned other than with a pole, never fishes over a redd and utilizes single-barbless hooks on non-natural attractors also.

Whats the last time we saw non-tribal netters going about their business in March and April, (except the few days they get on the Columbia with chinook sized mesh) when the bulk of the wild steelhead are cougaring about?

Just some thoughts to ponder.

banning baitfishing is elitism rearing its ugly head...dont use the issue of tribal netting to push your own agenda...these are two completely different issues


if there were ZERO nets (both tribal and commercial) then we wouldn't have the government telling us what kind of barb we are allowed to use on our hooks or what type of lure we may use to take home our 1 or 2 fish limit while across the river a minority of the population is allowed to net any number of fish unchecked by any agency, while we are regulated more closely than any other group but are allowed only the smallest portion of the catch.

if you dont like baitfishing, then tie on a fly and enjoy yourself.

if you see someone fishing illegally, call and report them.

more regulation is not the answer...it only decreases our opportunity

Ya know KSR, I think you may have missed his point.

i dont think ksr entirely missed the point. to me, fishing is about fun. period. whining is just as racist as indian bashing, pussy bashing, etc.
it may be about free speech as well. since when did someones opinion become racism? every one is entitled to their opinion. i dont mind reading about someone elses opinion. lighten up.

BW, you missed KSR's point. Any action we take regarding native/wild retention is barely a drop in the bucket compared to agressive gillnetting in our rivers. If sportsmen would focus efforts on net elimination instead of constantly attempting to slash each other's throats we would see progress.

The "kill the nets" thread lists observations of disgusting fish harvesting practices by people fishing under provisions of tribal treaties. The thread acknowledges that these people appear to be of caucasion, native American, and other races. The issue is not about race. It is about a group of people that (under current legal interpretation) have special "rights" which allow them to decimate our fish runs.

Yesterdays thread did not belong on this bourd.I too went to it in hopes of seeing a plan to orginize the sport fishing industry together against the comercial nets.If there ever was a year in recent years wouldn"t it be this year to show the pro's of sport fishing on the economy?!
Being frustrated with the indians is inevitable.They continue to waggle there tounge's at the white man over the net issue.They sat out on the canal and netted our best silver runs in years and did they use the fish for anything but pure proffit,no.To take the silvers,which have struggled in the canal for years and strip the females and then dump the rest like a bunch of garbage is a slap in the face to all the people in the erea who have sacrifised so much for those runs.Property owners,the logging comunity, sport fisherman and the local economy have made the sacrifises and paid for the restoration of those runs.It hurt to see that done with the reward for those sacrifise's.
Bill Herzog wrote an arcticle on the demise of the hood canal and I wish I had it for referance now.His research if I remember right{help me out bill!}brought out on the table the ungodly damage the non tribal fisheries did all in the name of greed!The white man in my opinion,through non tribal netting, bad logging practices on the skoke drainage and damming the n. fork of the skoke,have done way more damage to the hood canal fisheries than the Skokes!If I were to point a finger of blame I would point it at the state not any body else.
Yesterdays thread had little to do with the facts in the issue and alot to due with hatred and frustration.As reasponsible sportsmen with a big cause infront of us we owe each other a more responsible attitude!
I personaly was threatened as a 10 year old boy fishing on the skoke by a couple of drunk natives,roughed up and told I was going to die if I did not get off there river.I still can not blame the afairs of the fisheries dept. on the Indians!

Could the state do a better job of managing fisheries? Absolutely. But the root cause of the mismanagement lies in the fact that the state is required to implement the idiotic Boldt decision. While it is easy for a judge to hand down a supposedly politically correct judgement, it is far from easy for any agency to implement that decision in the real world.

Well said Duck!! we can't blame the Indians for everything, In fact they bailed out the state by supplying eggs to our hatcheries on several occasions when all eggs were lost due to bacteria.
During last summers awesome salmon return I witnessed more crap from white so called sport fisherman than I care to see ever again. From white guys with a gill net on the lower Green by the east Marginal Bridge (these guys were introduced to a couple of state patrol officers) to dozens of snaggers on the Snohomish, and the list could go on.

I Personally know tribal fishermen that really care about future fish stocks for sport fishing, and I know some that some that don't care about anything but the money. Not much difference between them and us if you ask me.

[ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: FISHNBRAD ]

I agree with mostly everything that was said about not blaming others for the problems blaming people only results in the loss of focus on the greater problem which is the depletion of our native fish runs. For those interested in gaining a perspective on the Boldt decision I highly recomend the book messages from frank's landing I read it for a class I am taking on fisheries and it really gave me a differnt veiw of the tribal fishery and the Boldt decision it self

On a cold crisp morning in Montana, I sat on a hillside, overlooking a place called Decker Flats. It is the main crossing on the Yellowstone River, in which Elk leave the safety of the park, and go on to their winter-feeding grounds. When the sun came up, there were about a thousand Elk feeding down on the flats. And I watched five men on horseback ride down behind the herd, causing the to stampede up the hillside looking for shelter in the tree line. What the Elk weren't expecting, were the 300 or so hunters that lay in wait to ambush the Elk. When the animals were within 500 yards or so, the bloodbath began; hunters shot into the herd, over one another's heads, and ran down to claim their trophy bull. There were so many elk, and so many shots that it had to have been nearly impossible to tell who shot what, not to mention the illegality of the whole situation, and the lack of sportsmanship shown by what I thought were my fellow hunters. I walked out of there, with an extremely sick feeling in my stomach, vowing never to go back.

I have also witnessed a drunken fisherman taking a 13 or so pound native steelhead out of the Hoh. When they stopped to pull the boat out, he threw the fish out into the sand while he unloaded the boat, to then commit crime number two, drove home after having way to much to drink. I had that same sick feeling in my stomach. Did I get his license plate, yes, did I start a fight with he and his two partners while standing there by myself? No.

My point here is, that we all witness things that are illegal, and if not illegal, they are unethical. All of these things contribute to the demise of the land, water and resourced we like to spend our non-working hours enjoying.

When things are more than you can stand, write letters to congressmen, senators, WDFW, make your voice heard. Do we need to bash one another even when our opinions vary so much, no, but speak up for what you believe, to the appropriate people, don't bash your fellow sportsmen, unless they are doing something illegal, and then report it.

I don't know if anything can be done about Natives netting the rivers or the commercial fishing destroying another portion of our fisheries, but I suggest writing letters to any political or regulatory agency that will listen. If those don't work, then start petitions with as many signatures of fellow sportsmen you can find.

I can tell you one thing, if we don't get it together, our sons and daughters will only eat farm raised steelhead.

Remember, whether you fish with flies, bait, lures, or a stick and bobber, we are all still fishermen.

On a cold crisp morning in Montana, I sat on a hillside, overlooking a place called Decker Flats. It is the main crossing on the Yellowstone River, in which Elk leave the safety of the park, and go on to their winter-feeding grounds. When the sun came up, there were about a thousand Elk feeding down on the flats. And I watched five men on horseback ride down behind the herd, causing the to stampede up the hillside looking for shelter in the tree line. What the Elk weren't expecting, were the 300 or so hunters that lay in wait to ambush the Elk. When the animals were within 500 yards or so, the bloodbath began; hunters shot into the herd, over one another's heads, and ran down to claim their trophy bull. There were so many elk, and so many shots that it had to have been nearly impossible to tell who shot what, not to mention the illegality of the whole situation, and the lack of sportsmanship shown by what I thought were my fellow hunters. I walked out of there, with an extremely sick feeling in my stomach, vowing never to go back.

I have also witnessed a drunken fisherman taking a 13 or so pound native steelhead out of the Hoh. When they stopped to pull the boat out, he threw the fish out into the sand while he unloaded the boat, to then commit crime number two, drove home after having way to much to drink. I had that same sick feeling in my stomach. Did I get his license plate, yes, did I start a fight with he and his two partners while standing there by myself? No.

My point here is, that we all witness things that are illegal, and if not illegal, they are unethical. All of these things contribute to the demise of the land, water and resourced we like to spend our non-working hours enjoying.

When things are more than you can stand, write letters to congressmen, senators, WDFW, make your voice heard. Do we need to bash one another even when our opinions vary so much, no, but speak up for what you believe, to the appropriate people, don't bash your fellow sportsmen, unless they are doing something illegal, and then report it.

I don't know if anything can be done about Natives netting the rivers or the commercial fishing destroying another portion of our fisheries, but I suggest writing letters to any political or regulatory agency that will listen. If those don't work, then start petitions with as many signatures of fellow sportsmen you can find.

I can tell you one thing, if we don't get it together, our sons and daughters will only eat farm raised steelhead.

Remember, whether you fish with flies, bait, lures, or a stick and bobber, we are all still fishermen.

"Write letters to any political or regulatory agency that will listen"

Ah! there's the rub!

Start a petition? why? There is evidence and common sense a-plenty to support removing nets, all of them, from rivers and estuarys. All have been ignored or laughed at by our courts, fisheries departments, and enforcement agencies.

There are laws on the books already that are supposed to limit the native and commercial netting, what good are they? nobody is ever there to enforce them, and the resource rape continues un-checked.

Why is it we have enough enforcement to go around checking on hook barbs and other major infractions by sportfishers, like keeping one or two fish over the limit! when we know nets are in being used in total disregard, taking more fish in one day than most of us catch in a year!. Why then would anyone think more laws, short of an all out ban, would help?

Only the lowest, mouth-beathing, knuckle-draggin' scum, would string a net across the mouth of a river, wipe-out the buffalo, kill and slaughter any species to extintion or nearly so, and frankly race or ethnicity has little to do with it, rather it's simply a matter of being the A-hole de-jouir'.

Oh, sorry, guess that's not PC!

So you feel that the tribal fisheries takes 50% and sportsfisherman take 50%!! Talk about a blind ass!!

Papafish touched on the short, sweet point that I'm about to make:

There are assh0les and criminals in every greographic group.

Let that one linger in the air for awhile.

Until ET's park their vehicles on the front lawn of the White House, there will be but one race of people. The HUMAN race. The "race wars" as they have been called are nothing more than the human race warring within itself, and nothing else.

We are One People. Let's never forget that.

[ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: Dave Jackson ]

Just out of curiosity, what are the actual numbers of tribal netted fish compared to sports caught. Is there a website that list the actual numbers? It would be interesting to see what the "spread" is between the sports, commercial and Tribal.

You know the answer to that question TM. There's no answer just quesses on the percent of fish each group get, who counts all the fish the tribe takes (I'm sure it's more than 50%)and are the numbers factual? and do all fishermen turn in their punch cards and are all fish properly recorded to provide accurate data, I think not!! What I've been saying is if you can't beat them (Boldt decision) join'em, not slam them. Try to work together for a favorable solution for both sides. I see plenty of greed on both sides, and that's the whole problem.

ls Thank's for the info on the book. I found a used one on Yahoo books I'll let you know what I think after I read it.

I don't know what it's like on other rivers but on the nooksack the state doesn't even know the numbers of fish that are here but the tribes are allowed to have 50% I might not be the brightest light on the porch but what is half of an unknown number. We were told at a meeting that the state does not have any data to go by for the nooksack. I dont know if this made any sense or not but it pisses me off.

how can anyone even start o compare the 50/50? If you think this is true im sorry but you are RETARTED! we cant make those lockjaw fish hit but they sure can catch them in their nets!
tyler
p.s. i dont think anyone should be killed even over a fish or 100,000! i do not believe in the death penalty at all under any circumstance except osama bin queer

[ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: Tyler Celli ]