I am not a hateful person nor am I talking personally to anyone, I just want to have my say and let it be heard.
I do not get the reasons behind raising hatchery fish (green river)with wdfg funds (our money) and then we can't fish for kings but indians can, if I do the math : 10,000 Kings @ 15lb average x $2.00lb = $150,000.00 , I'm just curious do they contribute to this hatchery? if they do does anyone know where this info' is, if we can't fish for them what are we doing! also I'd like to see in the history books where and when indians operated casino's back in the days of their forefathers!
My bottom line is this, I was'nt there when the whites came here and neither were the indians of today, I am not sure why we have to carry the burden from those days, I fully support a treaty is a contract and I have no problem honoring it , but where does it stop!
I was fishing the skok' this year with whites on one side indians on the other whites are trying to catch fish by ethical "fishing methods"
indians are on the other with halibut sticks and treble hooks pulling in one fish after the other laughing there a#$es off! then when we walked down rver we seen fish stuffed under the bushes with bellys open and eggs removed (eggs taken for sale) and not just a couple either, LOTS!. seriously, whats up with that!! I don't care what you say ,what the reasons are or whatever but that is not right!
Nobody should be able to disrespect a resource or a creature like that, when white man does that we call them scum bags, but when they do they call it the indian way!
I could write more scenarios like finding elk shot and wasted or deer dumped off in the
ditch or fish by the hundreds rotting in nets (with a bonus catch 2 deer! rotten of course)but why bother! my point is this, we all live in washington my children were born here and I love this state, I own a buisness and I contribute to this states economy, we don't tolerate poachers or people wasting game but yet we give that privilage to them!
I think they have benifited by western civilization and I think we should all live by the same rules, I think that they have supplemented their income with these casinos also. now I'm rambling

Read the bottom half of the thread "Is the WDFW ran by idiots?"

Big T, I am a tad familiar with the muckelshoot tribal fisheries in the Green/Duwamish/Bay/area 10A,LK Wash,Lk Samam,etc,etc, I do know that a great deal of tribal funds are spent on the watersheds,and salt water areas that you are curious about. I am willing to bet that in the last 5 years alone The tribes Suquamish,Muckelshoots, have spent more money on rearing fish than WDFW has spent in the last 10 years. I know that they have more than a few pen sites in salt and freshwater, I know that they all but took over the sockeye fishery in the lake wash/cedar system when at the time the state just about gave up on it completely. You might have the tribes and not WDFW to thank for the past few fisheries in the lake. They co manage the hatchery facilities localy, they do spend alot on all kinds of projects that are in mine and your best interests. The last time I heard this was all being funded by a tiny percent of the casino profits,and other funding sources. I was told the following when I had to many concerns about the allocation in the green. Say the tribe spends $300,000 to support the fishery in the green. They produce a million fish for release in the green, were talking all salmon and steelhead smolts. Say that the total return of those fish are about 60,000 out of those 60,000 the tribe has to wait down in elliott bay for what is left after they are fished on in the coastal areas, straits,san juans,admirilty,puget sound,etc,etc. The fish they raised get fished on all over the place, and they have to wait and grab the most they can where they are allowed by law. You and I can go to any place to fish on what could be green river stock but they wait until everyone else is done fishing on that stock before they get a crack at their $300,000 investment. The numbers i used were just an example. Call Mike Mahovilich At the Muckelshoot tribe and he can give you exact figures on $$$spent by the tribe on fish related projects. WHEW------- Now my opinion. BAN ALL GILL NETS IN THE STATE OF WASHINGTON>>> PERIOD.. Chatge an extra $25 on your liscense and use it to buy back permits, and projected harvest numbers from systems in question by averaging the past 5 years total monetary value of that fishery. In essence pay to not fish. Just a thought...

Unfortunately for us racist indian haters the comments about the Muckleshoots are true when it comes to their efforts to enhance fisheries. The Lake Washington Sockeye fishery would surely have died off had it not been for the Muckleshoots. With that said, I can only hope that the discovery of Kennewick Man will lead to abandonment of the native American status as "super-citizen" and just maybe we can all enjoy the equal treatment under the law our constitution provides us. And I ,too, say Ban the gill nets.

Just a quick question for fishingfool, when you say "BAN ALL GILL NETS" and speak of buying back the net permits are you actually referring to "ALL GILL NETS" including tribal nets? I don't know much about the tribal licensing policy so I'm not sure if they have permits/licenses like commercial fisheries or not. If this is what you are referring to then I'd gladly stand in a long line to pay much more than the $25 to see that happen. If you believe these tribal nets have a right to be used then no offense but I think you're screwed in the head. I say this especially when these nets are being used in river systems where wild fish runs are weak. A net doesn't know the difference between a wild fish and a hatchery and these nets don't allow the safe and harmless release of non-targeted species.

Just my .02

sunday afternoon im on the nisqually, trying to enjoy myself fishing, when thie "white" indian, throws his net out above us and proceeds to net down thru us, so i give him a few choice words, guy across in the boat gives him more than a earful, now why is a non native get to net? whats up with that? if you marry into the family does that mean your allowed to net and if not, what is the enforcement number so i can get a straight answer to this..one fisherman on the left of me made a comment "if you had the right you would do the same thing" and i said no, i am respectful of others rights and where they fish..anyways..im gonna fish the same spot this sunday to see if that crap happens again..

Actually, the state has implements of leverage, but as of yet our leaders have refused to use them.

For example, we could tell a tribe: "stop decimating this or that fish resource, or we will approve wide open gambling for non-tribals in this county". Perfectly legal and it would certainly get their attention.

Hell, I would trade them the right to operate tribal brothels for some of their fishing "rights".

It would be a step in the right direction if you could just agree to impose mandatory release of wild fish. Banning nets would seem to be a stretch if you can't even do that one simple thing. Protection of wild fish would be the one tool you have in any fight over nets either with the tribes or commercials.

But B-Run, Who could I blame, who could I hate??????

Some comments on the Muckleshoots: they did some nice work on the Lake Washington sockeye - but they profited from it. For them to say there wouldn't be a season unless they counted the fish a few years back - baloney- I think someone would have noticed 500,000 sockeye going through the locks anyway. They can only catch fish in Elliott Bay & The Green - baloney - they have every right to buy a sports license and fish in Canada & AK the same as we do - ie: they have access too, they just have to leave their nets at home. Last year the Muckleshoots took 5,000 nooks in one night - their biggest one time harvest ever - while sports were kept off the river for most of the run. They objected to sports having more access (area or time) this year because they were concerned the resource couldn't handle it (but it can handle their harvest). And the coho they're raising by the grain elevators are dinks - I haven't seen any enhancement of the run since they started that project. Mahalovich is a very informed biologist, but he's also paid to do PR for the tribe.

Of course the Muckleshoots enhance the fisheries for their own benefit...duh?? They don't help the spawning habitat on the Cedar River for our benefit either. Of course they practice good PR practices too..AND they are using their gambling profits to buy political influence and to pay lobbyists to help them get a bigger and bigger slice of the pie they are supposed to get 50% of...Sports fishermen on the other hand are political wimps for the most part and lack the collective will and organization to stand up for their share of the pie... So it is no surprise that the tribes are co-managers of our fisheries and it is no surprise that they catch more fish than we do by miles...In Alaska their percentage of historically non-indian fisheries such as King crab and Opelio crab keeps growing and growing and growing..
And for the guy who wonders who to blame and hate if not the indians I say look in the friggin mirror

I don't understand why the tribes on the east side is so much differant then the west side. The amount of natives on the Columbia is down. Probably because of the prices being paid now. Although the allotment is 50 percent to the natives most 0f the fish were being caught by white commercial down river. Just by a visual estimate I would say that maybee 20percent of the sites available are being used. The Yakamas are the main reason for us whites to fish the Yakima River. At the other end the west side have a differant opinion on the natives. Although I really don't have that much knowledge for the west side some of the stories I read would make me upset too.
Duck In The fog (Jim Marquis)

Indians in Idaho get their fish out of the hatchery.... period... there are no gill nets... not that they have any less of a right... just that we vote a lot harder than you do... watch, learn and vote.....

Jerry they need to hate someone .

I'll tell you what, just because they contribute to these runs it does'nt mean they are sole responsible for their survival, I mean there is more to raising fish that releasing smolts, we maintain these waters they live in and we clear the path to let them through, once these nooks make it past the straits of georgia they're home there are no open season on them between there and the green,and who pays for the wdfg ...us! who pays for the enforcement to keep the water clean...us! I think we are helping raise these fish we should have opportunity to fish more than the weekends.
I know this sound insulting but I think these indians are spoiled slobs! just look at there reservations,there dumps, a ecologist would have a hayday with hazardous waste, I mean you you know when your on the rez' cause the place looks like [Bleeeeep!] ! you drive out of whitesville hoodsport into potlatch and you the rez' starts when you see wrecked cars in the woods! as I said I am not meaning to insult but am I wrong, so before you get on me for stateing this take a look for your-self!
I don't think we are helping them by giving them more means of making money, I mean money makes you more of what you already are, if your smart without money your smarter with money and if you an idiot without money your more of an idiot with more money!
I got my complaints with my people too! we are taxed to death and for us to enjoy anything we pay! I'm the wrong shoulder to cry on about mis- treatment as I said I was'nt there back in the day and neither were most of the indians that are alive (which most are part white now anyway!) I think it's time to quit kicking the sympathy dead horse and get over it join as one!....if anything at least you can qualify for welfare ! (not being smartass either) as far as standing up for our rights count me in!!!

I think you got what I meant grandpa------ we should each do our best to help the fish- there is alot than can be done with a little money and some volunteer time

I don't even know where to start with this one.

It's funny how we want them to bow down to white mans ways, yet whitey complains when they make more money than him at his own game. It would be a cold day in hell before our own american businesses mailed us a check for 2 grand per person every month. Would be nice though...but then again, someone would be jealous and complain that we don't deserve it.