WASHINGTON — A new provision tucked into the Patriot Act bill now before Congress would allow authorities to haul demonstrators at any "special event of national significance" away to jail on felony charges if they are caught breaching a security perimeter.

Sen. Arlen Specter , R-Pa., chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, sponsored the measure, which would extend the authority of the Secret Service to allow agents to arrest people who willingly or knowingly enter a restricted area at an event, even if the president or other official normally protected by the Secret Service isn't in attendance at the time.

The measure has civil libertarians protesting what they say is yet another power grab for the executive branch and one more loss for free speech.

"It's definitely problematic and chilling," said Lisa Graves, senior counsel for legislative strategy at the American Civil Liberties Union , which has written letters to the chairmen and ranking members of the House and Senate Judiciary Committees, pointing out that the provision wasn't subject to hearings or open debate.

Some conservatives say they too are troubled by the measure.

"It concerns me greatly," said Bob Barr, former U.S. prosecutor and Republican representative from Georgia. "It clearly raises serious concerns about First Amendment rights."

But not everyone agrees that rights are being trampled on by the additional provision. In fact, some say the ACLU is the problem when it comes to protecting national security.

Rocco DiPippo, a freelance writer for the conservative FrontPageMagazine.com and editor of The Autonomist Web log , said the ACLU has fought the government every step of the way over security measures following the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks.

"Its opposition to Specter's reasonable proposal is simply more of the same," he said. "I can understand the concern that we should be suspicious of government, but we shouldn't adopt this mindset: 'government is evil.' This is just more hatred of (President) Bush."

Under current law, the Secret Service can arrest anyone for breaching restricted areas where the president or a protected official is or will be visiting, but the new provision would allow such arrests even after those VIPs have left the premises of any designated "special event of national significance." The provision would increase the maximum penalty for such an infraction from six months to one year in jail.

In a post-Sept. 11 world many non-political events have been designated National Special Security Events and would rise to the higher status. Examples of possible NSSEs are the Olympics or the Super Bowl. In 2004, the presidential inaugural balls and President Ronald Reagan's June funeral procession in Washington, D.C., were designated NSSEs.

According to government sources with knowledge of the legislation, Secret Service protection and law enforcement authority would extend beyond protecting a specific person, rather the event itself would become the "protectee."

Currently, non-violent demonstrators who enter restricted areas at such events previously would be arrested and charged by local law enforcement with simple trespassing, said Graves. Under the provision included in the new law, they will be charged with felonies by the Secret Service.

"It's a different consequence to people," she said.

"You are talking about giving the executive branch broader authority to create these exclusion zones which could cover broad areas and last for days [during an event ]," David Kopel, a constitutional expert with the Cato Institute, told FOXNews.com.

A spokesman at Specter's office said the senator was surprised by the clamor over the provision, which merely makes a technical change to clear up legal confusion over who has arresting authority at NSSEs. His office had no further comment on the provision. Committee Ranking Member Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., also declined comment. Republican and Democratic House Judiciary Committee leaders did not return calls for comment.

White House sources say the measure was not instigated by the administration and pointed out that it was a stand-alone bill that was rolled into the Patriot Act by Specter's office during House-Senate conference negotiations. White House spokeswoman Dana Perino told FOXNews.com that the White House would not comment on the intent of the measure, but that the president is concerned with preserving individual rights.

"President Bush is committed to protecting the American people's national security as well as their civil liberties," she said.

Secret Service representatives said the agency does not comment on pending legislation.

The Bush administration has been criticized in the past for what many say are tactics that keep protesters far away from official events and by employing stringent policies to ensure favorable audiences for the president.

Last year, three ticket-holding audience members at one of the president's Social Security events in Denver, Colo., were apprehended by a man who they said identified himself as Secret Service. The three were forced away from the event because of an anti-war sticker on the driver's car.

"[The administration] has certainly demonstrated a desire to have carefully-controlled events," said Graves.

John Pike, director of GlobalSecurity.org, an Alexandria, Va.-based clearinghouse for domestic and international security information, said he "could certainly understand why the Secret Service would want that legal authority," given the enormous burden of making venues safe for VIPs today.

"However, I think many people have concluded that the way it is being used has nothing to do with protecting the president from Usama bin Laden and everything to do with suppressing dissent and making sure the protesters don't get on TV," Pike said.

Bush is not the first president to flex his authority in this area, said Kopel, who pointed out that beginning with Reagan, presidents have created a larger security bubble and greater distance between themselves and dissenters at public events. The 2001 terrorist attacks on the United States just intensified the situation, he said.

"I think the concerns about free speech in areas where the president is speaking long pre-date Bush. They were an issue in the Clinton administration, the first Bush administration and began as an issue during Reagan," Kopel said. "I do think the ACLU has legitimate concerns about the breadth of the new language and how it could be applied."

Graves points out that conservative "pro-life" groups will be the target of the new provisions, too, a scenario that could raise the concerns for those who are typically critical of the ACLU, which she said is necessarily concerned about other provisions in the bill that impinge on civil liberties.

House and Senate leaders, who return to Capitol Hill this week, are trying to renew the Patriot Act by Friday. Democrats and four Republicans in the Senate who filibustered a final vote in December after raising concerns about preserving civil liberties instituted a short-term extension of the previous bill, which was set to expire on Dec. 31.

"caught breaching a security perimeter." at any "special event of national significance"

I would hope that anyone that doing this would be nabbed.

Currently, non-violent demonstrators who enter restricted areas at such events previously would be arrested and charged by local law enforcement with simple trespassing, said Graves. Under the provision included in the new law, they will be charged with felonies by the Secret Service.

Yes they should be nabbed.
but a felony?

during a time of war, you betcha.

Like the war on drugs!

dumb

"Up the revolution!"

hoh-hum- great thread and a very important topic that the media is to scared to touch(more proof that their is no such thing as "the leftist media")

right now its a misdemeanor and the security perimiter is set as anyone within sight of the president....bush is the first president to make it illegal to protest him within his sight......the reason that they want to make it a felony is to take away the voting rights of the individual....and for you second ammendment fans- its also to make sure that anyone who protests bush within sight can be charged with a felony to preclude them from being able to excersice their rights to bear arms

papaslap-we are not at war

That's getting to be a pretty wornout clichè.

not at war

what are we calling this?

An act of terrorism. Have you ever noticed that no body calls it the Israeli-Palestinain war. And far more people have died there. Bush wants this called a war because he wants to be known as a Comander in Chef.

Papaslap,

Are you one of the remaining who actually believes there is a connection between 9/11 and our invasion of Iraq? It's amazing that there's no shortage of small thinkers in the U.S.

Papaslap,
I believe Lupo is correct in his analysis of the motivations behind the proposed dissent policy.It sounds like something Hitler and the Nazis put in place in the 1930s.

And I don't consider us at war either, never have since day one, what's that, 9/11? 9/11 ain't squat compared with the rest of the killing going on. Get over it.

"get over it"? you *******s! Tell that to those that have died at the hands of terrorist...I should have known better than entering this pool full of .............

and now 2,400+ dead soldiers, 30,000+ dead Iraqi civilians....the killing goes on and on because of a lie while the perpetrators are still on the loose in another country...tell that to those that died on 09/11. Some just want blood and don't care where it comes from.

Papaslap, what you demonstrated was a lack of willingness to enter into a level headed conversation. Has anyone else ever noticed that liberals will at least try to talk about issures. But conservitives just start throwing insults.

What bothers you isn't so much how may died. It's that they had the nerve to do it to us.

Come on BW be serious.

"Has anyone else ever noticed that liberals will at least try to talk about issures. But conservitives just start throwing insults."

All you need to do is check out some of your own posts.

Do you need special glasses to see the liberal posts?

Sort of proves the point....

What that you will not admit the truth? That liberal and conservative alike in this forum are equally guilty? Yourself included. comeon BW man up and admit it.

Thanks Lupo

You are so full of s@#^ its not even funny. I cant even believe you had the cahonies to even make that remark

Proving his point further...

KT, it would appear you have forgotten how often people like Salmo g tried to have civil discussions with you. He's a liberl. I think he has for the most part givvin up on serious talks with you.

Aix, you have proven my point. Every comment I made was civil and open for discussion. But instead you and Papaslap demonstarted the limits of your abilities to look at things from a different perspective.

As I said for the most part the liberals I know will at least enter into a conversation and at least try and keep it civil. Aix could not even get 5 words out before getting insulting.


By the way Aix, my wife and I have booked a trip to Namibia (thats in Africa) for july of 2007

I doubt a taxidermy studio develops film.

You have no idea how little I care what you think. But just because, the hunt will be for a Greater Kudu, Gemsbok, and a Springbuck. If you belive it or not makes no difference.

Whoo hoo sitting in a tank or a stand at a waterhole all day how sporting. Don't you get a free warthog and a baboon with that package?
Save yourself some money and see if Olympic game farm will let you shoot from your car.

Tell you what you take the kind of trip you want and I will take the kind I want.

If you REALLY knew what the hell you were talking about you would know that what you are describing happens in South Africa, not Namibia. Hence the reason we are going there.

For people who know Africa you really showed your ingnorence this time.

I bet TK has read a half-dozen books about Africa.

He is still scouring the internet for Namibia hunting information looking for another way to try and denigrate your vacation! Sad and pathetic but unfortunately true.

F Theliarking and have a great trip!

I read my first book by Jack O'Conner on African Safari's in my 20's. Been wanting to go ever sence. The waiting is going to be a bear.

One of my hunting partners and our taxidermist goes every year. I am not into it beacuse I do not like stand / blind hunting and sitting on water holes. If it's any consolation people that tree stand hunt here or hunt over bait are not hunter in my books and the hunting legends agree.

"the hunting legends agree."

Like the one in his own mind!

Nobody but KT is a hunter in his book. Shall we call him Buwana

By the way dipstick, we won't be hunting from a car, or from a blind, or at a water hole. This hunt is set up for the way I want to hunt. I didn't buy a package deal. I hired an agent who set it up for us.

You really can't allow someone to have any pleasure with you doing your best to prove you have done it before and better, or that it's not worth it.

I think dipstick fits.

Well we have something in common BW I have read all fo O'conners books and most of his articles. I don't remember one on Africa specifally whats the title or was it a collection of his outdoor life stories?

I assume then you ascribe to the high velocity side of hunting cartridges vs. the big bore side of Elmer Keith. What then will you be taking to Africa?

Have you read any Robert Ruark ?

"You really can't allow someone to have any pleasure with you doing your best to prove you have done it before and better, or that it's not worth it. "

BW if what I say effects your pleasure you need to re eval your life dude.

Unfortunetly with the reckleness of youth all the books I had back then are gone (it is in fact possable the books I refered to were not by Jack O'connor) although I had most all of his at that time. I really wish I had been a little smarter back then.

I had hoped to enter into a conversation about what hunting in Africa would be like. Guess I should have known better than that when someone like you enters into the conversation.

AM, yes Chris is back at Ft Bragg now. He hopes to get out here on leave in the near future.

It's pretty cool that the author that inspired your trip to Africa never wrote about Africa. You would probably enjoy A Million Little Pieces.

"it is in fact possable the books I refered to were not by Jack O'connor"

TheliarKing only selectively reads...

"It's pretty cool that the author that inspired your trip to Africa never wrote about Africa."

Jack O’Conner was one of the best big game and gun writers of the 20th century. He wrote for Outdoor Life magazine for over 20 years. Here is a collection of his best columns that have never appeared before in book form. There are classic O’Conner stories on hunting sheep, moose, mule deer, hunting in Africa and bird hunting along with pieces on guns and the only fly fishing story he ever wrote.

TheliarKing lies again!!!!!

http://wildadv.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2_31

Obviously, took all of 30 seconds...

KT, when you get to be my age you probley wont be remmembering every book you read either Jack ass.

By the way AM I can tell you that Chris lost 5 from his unit in Afganistan. I sure hope he can avoid going back for number 4 but we don't know yet.

BW, You are about my age and I remember every book.


Wacky,
Since the book you quoted was written recently Wacky it would have been hard for a guy his age to read it when he was 20 now would it not? O'conner wrote many articles on hunting Africa and India in the 1950's. He just never wrote a book specifically about Africa.

Did you not say "It's pretty cool that the author that inspired your trip to Africa never wrote about Africa."?

Has it not been proven to your satisfaction to be an untrue statement?

That makes you a liar, no matter how much you try to weasel out of it!

"never appeared before in book form" It is also possible that it was in column form and was found just as inspiring. "Here is a collection of his best columns". Another possibility is he made a mistake like he admitted previously.

The truth is you don't want to break your streak of being an ass on every thread you post. I think most of us get that!

As I understand it you are in your 40's. I have never posted how old I am. But I'm older than that.

Also if you had to read all the technical volumes I have to things would run togather a little for you too.

But of course you will deny that. Because you have an IQ that would have riveled Albert Einstine


And yes I read his articles about Africa. But once again KT you have NEVER misspoken in you entire live. Damn it must be hard being you

BW,

I think you got that part right, about it being hard to be KT. Few people are so pathetic that they would devote their work-day descretionary time to reading and posting on an internet BB for the sole purpose of trying to p!ss people off.

OK Wacky,

You want to play games and infer somone menat article when they said book.

"I read my first book by Jack O'Conner on African Safari's in my 20's."

This is much like your lame attempt to say your brother did not say or mean what he said.

If pointing out the difference makes me a liar in your world knock yourself out. Now if I was a shill like you trying to get people on the internet to send my retired wealthy bother money I would be concerned.

"Few people are so pathetic that they would devote their work-day descretionary time to reading and posting on an internet BB for the sole purpose of trying to p!ss people off. "

Conversly I think people that make promises in front of their family friends and community before God and break them are pathetic.

I think posting on BB while one works is a little less harmful, not a lie and does not involve ones children.

"Another possibility is he made a mistake like he admitted previously."

If by pointing out the possibilities is inferring in your mind knock yourself out.

Please explain to me what the f menat is?

"This is much like your lame attempt to say your brother did not say or mean what he said."

Right! You mean when you stated my brother claimed to have made his fortune and moved to the Olypen. I asked you to provide proof he stated just that and you come back with a quote where the reader needs to infer or assume your conclusions. That is your idea of proof!

My idea of proof is..

In this thread I take something you said "It's pretty cool that the author that inspired your trip to Africa never wrote about Africa". I demonstrate with actual facts that it is untrue and you want to compare the two? Knock yourself out dipshiat!

This is disgusting! YOU HAVE NO SHAME!!!!!

"Now if I was a shill like you trying to get people on the internet to send my retired wealthy bother money I would be concerned"

Kindly demonstrate with actual facts this time where I try to get people on the internet to send my brother money. If memory serves me well the generous people on this board asked how they could donate to the cause. It was suggested to me through private means of communication to setup a paypal account which I did. Not once did I solicit the money which was so kindly donated.

There is no depth you will sink is there? Always looking to punch below the belt!

You started the post about the boys accident. Setting up the sympathy knowing what kind people will do. You never disclosed it was your bother . classic signs of an attempted fraud.

Do I beleive that was your intent? No. But legally in such cases you are required to disclose certain things. But if you want to call me a liar based on the image your brother was forwarding on this site and then the later contradiction fair is fair.

I started the post about my nephew because my brother has some close friends on this board that I do not know personally. My brother was in a bad place and needed all the support he could get. I was reaching out to those friends. I also believe in prayer/positive thought, part of my spiritual side. I was also hoping that people would take a minute to pray for my nephew or at least send him positive thoughts.

Only a douche bag of your nature would assume a post like that is trying to extort money.

I'm sure you will provide proof of what I am legally obigated to disclose in this circumstance or are you lying or perhaps you are just throwing out a veiled threat!

You could have emailed them you could have said " my brother needs"

"Only a douche bag of your nature would assume a post like that is trying to extort money."

Funny I would call it prudent to know where your donation is going and who is involved. Are you saying you would send money if I had posted that I was retired, had come into some money and otherwise seemed like an intelligent capable person in past posts and later on an anonymous person are telling stories of my hardship causing others to solicit money on my behalf?
You would not want clairification of this conflict?

A prudent person would know that there are legal requirements for soliciting funds for charitable causes. Even more if they are done electronically. Full disclosure is your responsibility and investigation of charities is the donor's responsiblity. Even doing it the right way can put one in legal jeopardy. Ignorance or good intent are not excuses before the law. If I thought you were a fraud I would not hestiate to report you. Through your posts it became clear who you were and what your intent was. I never doubted the childs need based on Dave's article. Your bothers story ws conflicting and it appears that he was playing some game. The results are of his making not mine.

You could have emailed them you could have said " my brother needs"

Dumbass, I did not know who they are or what moniker's they used. I just knew he has a lot of friends he considers close on this board.

"A prudent person would know that there are legal requirements for soliciting funds for charitable causes."

Again, your reading for comprehension skills are beyond weak!

so·lic·it ( P ) Pronunciation Key (s-lst)
v. so·lic·it·ed, so·lic·it·ing, so·lic·its
v. tr.
To seek to obtain by persuasion, entreaty, or formal application: a candidate who solicited votes among the factory workers.
To petition persistently; importune: solicited the neighbors for donations.
To entice or incite to evil or illegal action.
To approach or accost (a person) with an offer of sexual services.


Now you ****ing genius show the world PROOF that I was soliciting funds for my "wealthy" brother.

Just to refresh everyone's memory and to preemptively contradict TheLiarKing's next lie, here is my original post.

"I know some of you have read this article before. I post it again in hopes that everyone can take a moment to think a positive thought for Josh. Josh was struck by a car yesterday and is in serious condition at Harborview. This kid is by far and away the toughest person I know or will ever know. H2o could use your thoughts as well..."

Like I said before and happily say again. Only a douche bag of your nature TheLiarKing would see that post as an attempt to extort money!

How is Josh doing now? We were truly saddened to here about the accident.

He has attacked my family for the second time. I will not tolerate it anymore! If defending my brother and myself gets me tossed from the board I will respect the moderators decision. My gloves are off!

I started an update thread on the main board, this is not the place.

Wacky,

"for my "wealthy" brother. "

You did not impy this he did.

"Now you ****ing genius show the world PROOF that I was soliciting funds "


How is this? It does not matter if you think it does or does not constitute solicitng. There is a rule the courts use called the common man test. What would the common man think? There are a few lawyers on this board ask them what they think a court would find.

"I have spoken with Josh's Grandmother and got the account information and created a Paypal account linked to the bank account.

It sounds like many of you are familiar with Paypal, I am not.

My understanding is you can use the email address I setup the account with steelhdh2o@hotmail.com to make donations. If you go to the paypal website there is a make payments tab where you enter that email address. If someone knows an easier way please share, this is my first time working with Paypal."


Again I never said you did anything underhanded or intentionally decietful I said I could draw that conclusion if you wanted to continue with the liarking line and justify it as you have.

We can continue this here or we could forward it to the states attorney generals office for clarification if you would like. Are you interested in more name calling or what the professionals think. Your call.

You may call it attacking your family the state calls it due dilligence which you are legally bound to provide.

I am glad you said that Wailuku.

"Again I never said you did anything underhanded or intentionally decietful"

"if I was a shill like you trying to get people on the internet to send my retired wealthy bother money I would be concerned."

What was that TheLiarKing? Do you need me to post the definition of a shill? Are you ever going to stop the lies? Perhaps you will just continue with the slander!?

If you think I have done something underhanded or have something to hide then knock yourself out.

"get over it"

I would have thought that someone as well read as KT would know that it's "Attorneys General".

Oh well.........

"Do I beleive that was your intent? " Is pretty much a clarification of my thoughts there Wacky.

I cannot believe you are so hard up for an internet BB win that you would risk legal action by possibly 3 states. I am not as pathetic as you I would never file a complaint. But I would be careful because anyone can that reads this.


BW,

Go to this site and read the title come back and tell us what it said.
http://www.atg.wa.gov/

It might say something like this. "Welcome to the Washington State Attorney General's web site. "

I deal with them for work about once a week.

This thread has just gotten way too ugly and out of hand, yes even for you tk

http://www.secstate.wa.gov/charities/laws.aspx

Here you go tk, find the rules which have been broken and let me know what he did wrong, anxiously awaiting.

I think it would be more plausible to find fault with your favorite political action committee.

Grow up AM.

"I am not as pathetic as you"

You are the only person on this board that I know of that talks about "winning" on a BB. I do not try to win on any thread, I merely express my opinions and every now and then a fact or two. I have ruffled feathers no doubt but I personally do not look at doing that as a victory.

In short, your statement I quoted above may be true, who is to say? The only thing we can say about it is, it is your OPINION. In saying that I also think it is safe to say everyone else on this board has their own opinion...

Duke,

You say it out of hand but you want it to go further make up your mind. I will just touch the tip of what you ask for.

RCW 19.09.100
Conditions applicable to solicitations.

The following conditions apply to solicitations as defined by RCW 19.09.020:

(1) A charitable organization, whether or not required to register pursuant to this chapter, that directly solicits contributions from the public in this state shall make the following clear and conspicuous disclosures at the point of solicitation:

(a) The name of the individual making the solicitation;

(b) The identity of the charitable organization and the city of the principal place of business of the charitable organization;

(c) If requested by the solicitee, the published number in the office of the secretary for the donor to obtain additional financial disclosure information on file with the secretary.

Wacky,

Cool!

I read the original post awhile back, I know who was soliciting, I know the whereabouts of where they are, or are operating from and (c) is only if I request the information, then they must provide it. So I think you missed the mark there, no foul by H20 or Wailuku, go back and try again.

Duke,

It does not matter what you think you know it has to meet a legal standard. It has to be spelled out completely with full names and addresses aand contact info of any one with access to the funds or involved and in plain view. Which is good info for anyone that attempts to do this. I have done several at my church and we are currently doing one now for our youth group. It all goes through the lawyers and bonds are placed on anyone with access to the funds. You owe it to contributors to have full disclosure.

nevermind

So, did you go somewhere and see a donation box that did not have this info on it??? I'm guessing that's a no as you seem to not get out much at all. Or, maybe, you have little or no info as to how this charity is set up and operating and therefore have no clue what you are talking about. Or possibly, you're jeaous because you realize that you are a charity case in need of a soul.

I never saw any solicitation. How do I remember it happening? I recall reading the article of Josh fishing, then wailuku asking for our prayers, then a large flood of posts of the good people here asking how they could contribute. If anything Wailuku was goaded to set up a charity to appease the good will of people at PP.

TK, I fear for your

Well you may see it that way but again your wrong
I tried to get the Libs on this bb to have a discussion and they My friend are the ones to start the Name calling I did not call you any thing, I stated that your remark was full of it. I f you feel that is a lie then just say so and I can prove it for you.

Well sorry to here that. But it would seem that you would rather have a good quality taxidermist due your trophy, than to let a misunderstanding keep you from it. It’s sad that you may use a less qualified taxidermist for a once in a life time trophy. I know my work and I know that I have been around here on this board for a long time, and I truly doubt I you would choose not to use me from that remark. I know I’ve made worse ones and have been misunderstood here before. And I really doubt I was even in your consideration. If I truly was thank you, and hope you would reconsider. But most folks that have already booked there trips, I know have already got me in contact with there guides to get the paper work handled. Jim W

We will be visiting the taxidermists our agent recomends over the nex few months. Yes my decission on who will do the work is going to be made well in advance of the trip.

Aix, for the fricken record, BW didn't cast the first stone. You did. He only expressed an opinion, which he can support with facts.
You will not find a more pleasant guy on this board than BW. I can't understand WHY you are unable to allow others to have an opinion without getting rude and insulting, but you expect to be treated with respect by others here? [/QB][/QUOTE]


I just stated facts AM, and you know it if hes insulted buy that remark all I can say is toughen up, the truth hurts.


http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/15/1407.html


Take a look If you believe that all the insults come from conservatives first, You all are blind. You pic any thread, and its an all out name fest from MOSTLY LEFTIES. and I called it like it is and if that pisses the left off to bad the truth hurts You can twist it all you want facts are still facts. and bye his last statement.
I know I wasn’t going to be used buy him,(I’m not in with any out of country Guides yet) and that’s fine. He has proven him self to be a Liar and un trust worthy. I didn’t need clients like that. And I’m not going to have some one try and play games either. Just had one busted from my shop. I will, and do turn in poachers. I run an honest shop.(not saying he is a poacher) I have a very good rep on my self and on my work and that’s what counts. I have game wardens that send folks to me and a few sports shops. this Board will bring maybe one, and the others just a small few. so to let you all know I don’t care if you use me or not. All any one here can honestly say about me or my work is they don’t like my personality, cause if you never used my services, any thing else you would say would be a lie. Jim W.

Just so you know Aix, I'm aware that you would not be on our agents list. HOWEVER, it's normal for me to at least try and use the services of the members on the BB's I'm a member of. By the way, our agent is local he's not in Africa, so he may very well be aware of you.

In case you didn't notice, our hunt is in july of 2007. Over a year away, other commentments made that necessary. By the end of next week I will have his list of taxidermists. I will add the people I know and by the end of the year I will have personaly visited each one. And made all the arrangments to have the trophies shipped directly to the person I have chosen.

I was aware of your busness because of your tag line. However there are limits to what I will take while still being willing to hire someone.

This will be the last I write on this subject. You had a very real chance of getting my busness after the hunt, but I will be looking elseware now. Belive it or don't it's your choice.

Great advertising there dude.

Don't know about you but I don't need to be able to throw insults to feel like a man.

KK, glad you are gettiong a lot of use out of it.

Thanks for the kind words AM and KK.

BW, Glad your son is safely back in the states. I hope you have a great hunt in Namibia. The San can point you at some fine game sites.
My political opinions are more in line with Aix''' but that is no reason to be disrespectful. good hunting.

and tk sinks to all time lows to highjack another conversation.........the man is a dangerous combination of scumbag and wimp...

now to get back on topic.....

Papaslap-did the war begin with the oklahoma federal building bombing???? if not then what have we learned.......

basic intelligent defense of a society does not constitute war