micro,

YOU ARE WRONG!! Resident rainbows most certainly ARE classified as Oncorhynchus Mykiss, just like their anadromous counterparts. So yes, a steelhead is a rainbow is a steelhead.

Call the Univ. of Washington Department of Fisheries Sciences if you want confirmation.


Oh and cowfish.........do you need a degree in Atmospheric Science to know the sky is blue?

Dan, it really depends on two scientific points; are you looking up...or are you looking down!

The reason for the reclasification is, rainbow trout (including steelhead) and cutthroat trout are more closely related to salmon. Brooke trout are more closely related to char.

It was only done for clarification. Nothing changed really.

DanS -

The Sky is not blue.

It is Azure.

salmon are in the genus Oncorhynchus,
Trout are in the genus salmo.

Steelhead are in the genus oncorhychus
Rainbow trout are in the genus salmo

A king salmon is to a brown trout what
A steelhead is to rainbow trout

It does make a difference though be it close that only (as you said) counts in horshoes and grenades.

micro,

I'm going to tell you once more, just to be sure you hear it this time. You're wrong.

Coastal Cutthroat trout: Oncorhynchus Clarki Clarki

Mexican Golden Trout: Oncorhynchus chrysogaster

Gila Trout: Oncorhynchus gilae

Paiute Trout: Oncorhyncus clarki seleniris

Resident Rainbow Trout: Oncorhynchus Mykiss

Rainbow trout (steelhead form): O. mykiss

Apache (Arizona) Trout: Oncorhynchus apache

ONLY the Brown trout ( Salmo trutta) and the Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar) are still classified in the Genus Salmo.

You need to get some newer sources of info.

BW
Quote:
"It was only done for clarification. Nothing changed really."

It may be more appropriate to have said; "It was only done for clarification. Nothing has changed really between salmon or steelhead management."

Is that fair to say?


Cowlitzfisherman

now that every thing is probably getting confusing for some people
I just want to say this:

The reason I wanted to differentiate steelhead from rainbow trout for purposes of hooking mortality studies is plain and simple, of course studies showing hooking mortality of trout are going to show higher death rates I have already stated that in previous post on this thread and stated why. steelhead are not trout they are salmon. I want to see hooking mortality studies done on steelhead smolts since everybody seems to think we kill so many as to blame poor fish returns on bait fishermen. I want this study done in flowing water not some u-fish pond.

I have stated from the start that steelhead are salmon and I was dissagreed with.

The fish and game department also said they are salmon.

cowfish can put his crow pie back in the oven But i dont think he will need it later.

CF you are right this is just for clarification but it started out showing that hooking mortality rates of rainbows are useful and relivant when dealing with smolts.

Micro if you don't believe Dan here is a site from the USGS
http://nas.er.usgs.gov/fishes/accounts/salmonid/on_mykis.html
You will notice that is says Rainbow trout and then in () it tells you that the sea going of the rainbows are called steelhead. Rainbows aren't classificed in Salmo any more.

JJ

To get back to the problem of helping the steelhead population. When I first moved here from the midwest, I encountered a lot ot terms I was not familiar with. One of them was "boot" refering to fish. Then one day it came to me, when I seen a fisherman land a beautiful downriver hen steelhead. He drug it up on the bank, took the hook out, and proceeded to kick it back into the water. It took him several kicks to get the fish back in, and the fish floated, belly up, for as far as I could see it.

My point is, I think we need to educate the begining fisherperson on how to handle fish properly when returning them to the water. I believe the mishandleing also contributes to the mortality of steelhead. I think it's a damn shame anyone would do this to such a great fish.

That was only one example of many I have seen . Seems that if the fish cannot be kept, it should be "booted", instead of treating it with the respect it deserves.

Great thread Sparkey,
Catarafter

Well, never mind then. Your mind wouldn't be changed with a crowbar, so there's no point in continuing on.

People insisted for centuries that the earth was flat. They were wrong.......just like you are.

Maybe I do need to to get a new book but the book I have was put out by the university of washington and is use for purposes of fish Identification by fisheries biologist. It does not show trout in the same genus of salmon. Did they recently change most trout to the genus Oncorhynchus? I really want to Know, I am not being combative.

Dan,

Brown trout are actually O.$hit.

Also, male Wolves are weiner dogs....

Sorry, thought this thread needed to be little softer.

I knew a weiner dog who THOUGHT he was a wolf once. Of course I would think a wolf would chew on more than just your ankles.

Here is a post that you just said that Rainbow are in the genus Salmo. So you just contradicted yourself with this post

Originally posted by micropterus101:
JJ [/qb][/QUOTE]I know that rainbows are no longer classified as salmo any more thats what I have been saying all along. Look at page two of this thread please.

[/QB][/QUOTE]


So do you agree that rainbows are O. Mykiss?

JJ

Ok

You guys have had all had it!

I ain't going to eat no more pie to night…well at lease no more crow pie!

You won't hear me say this very often...but I am done with this one!


Cowlitzfisherman

Since we're so far off track from Spark's apparent intent, let me see if I can help here.

For the record, the American Fisheries Society reclassified Salmo gardneri (hey, that's me!) and Salmo clarkii to the genus Oncorynchus in 1989. They also changed the rainbow/steelhead's species name to mykiss at the same time. What we have is a name change. It's not terribly uncommon. The species did not change, or evolve, into salmon.

Trout are still trout, and salmon are still salmon. And a rose by any other name would still smell as sweet. Therefore, the hooking mortalities on trout are very applicable to rainbow trout and juvenile steelhead (which are still the same species, and as was previously indicated, some resident rainbow produce offspring that become anadromous steelhead, and some anadromous steelhead produce offspring that become resident rainbow trout. This characteristic is even more common among cutthroat trout, just in case I haven't confused you enough already.)

Please resume bashing one another about the merits of bait v. artificial, barbed v. barbed. The rejection of science in this thread reminds me of the Administration's rejection of any science which is not absolute (which is most) as an excuse to continue with the same actions that have degraded the environment in the first place. If you actually care about fish, that's a pretty compromising association.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

JJ
I messed up I meant to say steelhead are no longer classified as salmo.

Dan s,
I see the light! Sorry, I had to get away from this computer screen for awhile.
I understand what you are saying now.
That steelhead being under the genus Oncorhynchus doesnt make them salmon.
I agree, a name does not make a fish what it is. Its there traits.

Cowfish,
Can you serve me up a double serving of crow pie?

I will try not to be so thick headed in the future.

I do need some new books!

<img border="0" alt="[wall]" title="" src="graemlins/wall.gif" />

Micropterus,

It's nice to see that you can be open minded to seeing the light! It happens to us all, man. Don't sweat it, but do give the rest of us a little credit, as more than a few of us here actually know what we're talking about most, if not all, the time.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

A little more on the fish taxonomy 101 lesson for today, if you're interested.

Pacific salmon (6 species) and Pacific trout, both rainbow/steelhead and cutthroat are classified in the genus Oncorynchus, but that does not mean trout are salmon or vice versa. The reclassification was made because some taxonomists felt that it was improper to separate Pacific salmon and trout on so little a meristic as the number of anal fin rays, 12 or fewer being trout and char, 13 or more being salmon. Char didn't get reclassified because of other "key" characteristics.

However, brook trout and lake trout are actually classified as char, with Dolly Varden and bull trout.

I think brown trout and Atlantic salmon are the only remaining members of the genus Salmo.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.