Well spark, I have come to the conclusion that you and I would probably never be friends based on a number of different things you have posted.

Like him or not, Tim Eyeman is brilliant. Like it or not the initiative process is the peoples only breath of fresh air in the political process. Like it or not Tim Eyeman has been the only one to make this process really work.

Do I agree with all the initiatives? Doesn't matter! Do I agree with the kickback he got? Doesn't matter! The initiative process is the only political tool that the normal guy has anymore.

I know you strive to be cool and accepted that is obvious. Just be aware that as wounded as our political and judicial systems seem to be I challenge you to find better systems in place anywhere in the world.

Sorry for the rant, but negative put downs of any person is uncalled for in my opinion.

Jim

I was listening to John Carlson yesterday. He had the guy who is starting this initiative on the radio. The guy was a total waste of time. He had nothing useful to contribute. He had no ideas worth the time of day. His "initiative" is nothing more than a sophmoric prank that should be ignored. What a waste when people are trying to accomplish real things on real issues. Agree with Eyeman or not, you should be able to be articulate in your opinions and bring something to the table. All this guy is bringing is personal insults and attacks. He thought the initiative process was flawed - and wants to make it even harder to get an initiative on the ballot. The guy is not worth typing any more words about.

Well said Jim

Right on Sparkey!! I am with you.

Negative put downs of any person is uncalled for? Tim Eyeman is not exactly a saint. He used money donated to his iniatives to pay himself and as a result as lost an extreme amount of credit with the citizens of Washington.

Our right to form initiatives is not universially accepted among political scientists and it's split among the states as to the citizens ability to get such intiatives on the ballot. The danger is that you get the Tim Eyeman's of the world that really do stand things on their heads and cause damage to the bureaucratic system. Should citizens have the right to vote on their own taxation? No, it is silly to think that citizens have the conscience to "do the right thing" and raise their own taxes.

That being said, I am a supporter of Tim Eyeman. His initiatives are neither good for our state nor are they particularly well reasoned or written. But, he has accomplished something that bureaucracy on it's own cannot. He managed to stand the state on it's head which allowed all that loose change hiding in it's pockets to come falling out. Obviously the state hasn't collasped. Our tax dollars have just been cut from much of the fluff. (Keep in mind, one man's fluff is another's bread). We did/do have good reason to distrust our state's ability to budget money and responsibly for the benefit of the people. His initiatives are absolutely essential with our current governorship in order to provide the citizens with a tool for real checks and balances.

That horse's ass sure is entertaining!

I agree with MIKE C. I was listening to JOHN CARLSON and agree the guy was a waste of time. although i could be wrong i believe most people agree with and hope TIM EYEMAN keeps trying.

Good post Sparkey We have one of those same type of guys down here in Oregon. His name is Bill Sizemore

"Should citizens have the right to vote on their own taxation? No, it is silly to think that citizens have the conscience to "do the right thing" and raise their own taxes."


CWU, as an alumni from the school you are attending and someone who has enjoyed your posts. Your above quote leaves me concerned, because if I take this literally then it says that we should rely on the intelligence of politicians to control our taxes because we the people aren't smart enough to do the right thing. We the people elect these politicians and these politicians are people. Do you sense an out of control spiral???

Plus if Political Scientists agreed on everything there wouldn't be "Scientist" after their name.

Tim Eyeman did lose alot of respect just when I had written him to help us get a net initiative that would work. DANG!

Jim

well said JIM B!!! I'm with you.

Just a question...... What does this subject have to do with fishing?????

Right on Big-Daddy! I enjoy reading about fishing related subjects on this web site. I do not feel that this is a soap box for political issues that don't relate to fishing!!!!!!

I have noticed one thing on this board we as sportsmen have different views of the same water…

JimB… you are right the initiative process is a breath of fresh air in the political process.

How many of us, as individuals or as a group/club, have asked our state representatives to do or look into changing something for us only to be brushed aside or given some political lecture about we don't see the big picture.

CWUgirl… should we really care what political scientists accept? It is the legal process and it does allow us a voice into the political process. Do you know that before the initiative process was put into place or opened up for us to use, it was virtually impossible for an individual or group/club to enact change within the state political beast.

CWUgirl… you also must believe that the citizens wouldn't do the right thing, because of your statement “Should citizens have the right to vote on their own taxation?” and my answer would be a resounding YES! I have the conscience and hope for the good of the generations that follow, that WE the citizens of Washington and the United States have the “conscience to “do the right thing””! I have seen and believe that we would see more support for tax increase if we felt that we were getting the service and a truthful accounting of how our current tax dollars were being spent.

Tim Eyeman in my opinion is just showing the State Representatives and Governor that “We the people” want more responsibility with our tax dollars! He has used the current legally defined process “for the people” to let the people have a voice since the Representatives are not and have not listened to those they represent!

I know to some the view of fiscal responsibility (big picture) may appear different, but it is really the same as individual fiscal responsibility. It is simple…

I/State have set income.
I/State have set payment responsibilities.
I/State have to live within the set income.

I can't decide on my own that I want to spend more therefore TELL my employer that they must pay me more just because I want to spend more than my set income. That would be extortion!

We all must live within our means! Take care of our RESPONSIBILITIES (as defined by the Constitution, both national and state), before we spend on luxuries.

Oooops, I didn't see that I step onto the Soap Box… but that is MY 2 cents.

P.S. Big Daddy Eyed Egg … it has everything to do with fishing. I for one pay taxes and licensing fees that are to be used to pay for the WDFW. But the State/Governor can take those collected dollars and then cut the services to use the fund elsewhere. Also, the State doesn't use the funds wisely. Example: What was the reason for buying the DFW guys new trucks? Well from a Supervisor of the State Motor Pool, I was told it was because someone in the DFW wanted Cheve Trucks and that they were getting closed to the mandatory replacement age of the vehicles. I don't know about you but within my household I can't just go buy a new rig because the “old” one is more than 5 years old or because the newer truck looks better!

Fiscal resposibility!!!

Tight Lines and Shoot Straight

Anybody who supports Tim Eyman can fish with me anytime, I just don't want to hear then complain about any loss of services, where our license fees are going, etc. Good job at rallying people, poor thought process.

Initiatives should need to pass an economic impact statement, something that will be put into law this year. Basically what that means is that if the people vote for higher teachers pay, they need to provide a method of funding, ie. higher taxes somewhere.

The funds from license tabs funded many things other than just road programs and transportation.

If you supported Eyman, you have no room to complain.

BTW, This is one intiative I will vote for.

Andy

Whoa, CWUGirl

Should citizens have the right to vote on their own taxation? No, it is silly to think that citizens have the conscience to "do the right thing" and raise their own taxes.
_____________________________________

I'm staggered by that statement. It flat scares the Hell out of me. Please don't tell me that you think politicians are better than "common folk".

It has been my observation that the silent majority have a very solid comprehension of what is worthwhile and what is not. And since most believe that a good life is one spent with family and friends, they are not interested in playing the political game whatsoever. Unfortunately, as a result, the people who do end up in the arena all too often are those obsessed with "making a difference" (with the unsaid statement, "with my name on it")

This country was founded by Outlaws....think about it. It has been kept great by those daring to buck the system.

but then again, it is a waste of time trying to make a sheep into a goat.

WHOA!!!!....I first saw mention of this filed initiative on the news and then I visited the aforementioned website.

I did not post the link to stary any sort of arguement...I just found it all incrediblly funny and thought many of you would get a kick out of it like I did.

Oh well...once again an attempt at humor by myself fell short.

Right on ,Anty M & WaBow
We need more people like Tim Eyeman in this state to hold the elected people and the huge state bureaucarcy accountable.The tax and spend attitude of Olympia needs to change.

OK guys I have one for you. I was sitting at home playing the Xbox the other night and came up with one hell of an idea. Since Tim is into inititaves or however you spell it. I thought Hey wait a minute. Why not see if he or someone like him would sponser something to put on the ballot to make it C-N-R for all wild steelhead. I talked with Bob about it and he thought it was a great idea. The only thing is it is going to take lots of money and support to get it there. I have spent hours online and if anyone wants to give a hand let me know. I think Eyman is a Class Act for what he has done. The votes say so also. The state just needs to pull there head out of their arse and figure it out and quite wasting so much money. Like the 560 million that license fees generate. I know it doesn't all go back into the fisheries. Another Buacracy with to many chiefs and not enough ______! Shoot me some emails and lets see what we the TAX PAYERS can do to make this a World Class Steelhead Fishery here in the State of Washington. I finally remembered BOB!

Great post, sure got a lot of conversations started.

I think the guy, David Goldstein, that started the Horse Ass initiative is the Real Ass and wasting tax payer money. Tim doesn't have everyone on is side but it sure is nice to see that if someone wants, they can make a difference.

I like the idea of getting Tim or someone to get and initiative for CNR or how about reversing that darn Boldt decison.

Last comment is to those that don't want to see these non-fishing posts. I think this is actually a fishing topic post because it could get a CNR initiative topic started. If you don't want to read the don't, go fishing instead.

Hey Spark.. ler I just heard a rumor that Tim Eyman thinks you are just as big a horses A%$