Did Colin Powell's presentation at the UN convince YOU that Iraq is hiding or misleading the presence of weapons of mass destruction?

yep

There are two types of people in the world…

1) Those that are willing to deal with a problem no matter the cost

2) Those that are willing to ignore a problem so they don't have to pay a cost

To live free without fear means dealing with a problems, head-on and it costs!

Tight Lines & Shoot Straight

I was fortunate enough to see the entire presentation to the UN. Powell is a powerful speaker and presented (IMO) the evidence masterfully. And still the French et. al. don't get it. Their first call was to increase the number of inspectors. With Iraq actively hiding the WMDs, what difference will doubling or even increasing by ten fold the number of inspectors do. Could the truth be that France doesn't want war because it is they that have huge oil and other contracts with Iraq? I think the "no war for oil" protesters are targeting the wrong country.

The more interesting question is "Did his presentation change anyone's mind?" In other words, is there anyone out there that wanted war with Iraq who after hearing Secretary Powell speak doesn't want the war? And vice versa. I missed the presentation, and the only thing I have heard is that at least one Democrat - Senator Biden - now believes that war is the only course. I do not have enough wisdom to answer the question. I know that war is terrible and that innocents and American combatants will lose their lives inevitably. One thing I can say though, especially living on the West Coast, I am much, much more concerned about North Korea. They have nukes and the ability to deliver them. They also have millions of starving people - now that is truly scary.

I dont think he should have had to make his case. I think Its been made for about 12 years now.I do think he did a great job of presenting what information he had.He was very convincing.Even though it was mostly circumstantial evidence.I thought it was pretty damning.

I believe that the countries that are so against us going to war against Iraq have ulterior motives. i.e. protecting their own interests.

I hate the idea of war,but sometimes I think it is a necessary evil.This time,the lesser of the 2.

People are arguing that it will cause more terrorist attacks on the U.S.I believe that its inevitable that we will have more terrorist attacks no matter what action or lack of it we take.

I hope it never comes to this,and it probably wouldnt,but at least with G.W. in office if we ever have to defend ourselves from terrorist attacks.By us I mean the general public.We will have our personal firearms so that we will be better able to do just that.With a few more years of Clintons regime(Gore)that wouldnt be possible,because I'm convinced that it would be illegal for the general public to own those firearms.

I may not agree with everything G.W. says or does.I even think its more than a little too personal for him.But I do support his decision on this.

Hopefully Hussein is taken out one way or another.There are better alternatives than war,for sure. Hopefully his weapons will be destroyed.and this is taken care of once and for all.
My 2 cents worth anyway.

Frankly I don't think it really matters. I think it is time for the US to take the initiative and fix things before they need to be fixed. I am tired of us usually sitting back and waiting for something to happen cry about it then get pissed and then try and figure out how to fix it. 9-11 wasn't that long ago!! And Iraq has the capabilities to inflict some sort of mayham on inocent people. Lets just take care of the problem now!
Buck

I've posted several links on the State of the Union link that discuss some of the oil related issues and why France/Russia are so reluctant to sign on to this conflict. Interesting reading.

About the PP poles - I find it very revealing that the State of the Union speech had about a 52% approval rating for Bush, and Powell is running over 90%. Either people don't trust Bush as much, they trust Powell more, or it just took hearing the evidence put forth in a convincing way to sway the readers of this site.

Boy I'm encouraged so far...No Socialist babble yet..atleast on this particular thread. Those who hate George Bush and despise Republicans will most likely be against everything ...just like the same people were all for similar policies when their hero was in office...I think there will be serious consequences if we act but worse consequences if we don't. I've also been to North Korea and that situation is definitely scary,too.

How soon the French forget huh? If it wasn't for us they'd all be speaking German.
I can't believe there's been this many posts on this subject and nobody has been flamed, very different crowd in here than some of the other fishing boards I've been on.
I don't think GWB is a master communicator but he sure stood up to the UN, I liked that.
If we do end up going into Iraq maybe we ought to lob a few at France as we fly by as a reminder.
Seriously though, if we do it we should do it right, there's always going to be dissention whatever we do.
North Korea is maybe even scarier to me, my uncle commanded a chopper squadron there, actually in S. Korea and recently came home to attend more school. I know he's glad to be back in the States with his family but it's amazing to me how those marines are all over kicking some butt, he's chomping at the bit to get back and put his training to use. I'd hate to worry about him in a war but also am secure in the fact that our guys ARE the best at what they do.

In the end, does it really matter if Colin Powell made his case or not? Face it, we're going to war with Iraq, probably in the next few weeks. I've been predicting this since Bush got selected.

Bush has a blood feud with Saddam and no amount of protest is going to stop it. Not having France help really doesn't matter, either. While I agree that Sadaam is an evil *******, I don't think firing the first shot is a trait I would like Americans to be known for. Still, I gotta be pragmatic; like it or hate it, war is a given at this point.

At the risk of being callous, is anyone planning to pop some popcorn and watch the war on CNN? Or are you hitting the streets to check out the protests?

If your going to watch it on TV, watch Fox News, and S$$$W CNN, the Clinton News Network

Powell definitely made a good case for justifying action in Iraq. I have to ask myself, though, "Could he have made as good of a case for invading N. Korea?" Indonesia? Pakistan? (where Osama is presumed to be) Saudi Arabia?(Who's funding radical Islam all over the World) Nigeria?

I'm not quite sure what we're stepping into. If we don't have UN support, what do we do when China invades Taiwan without UN support or when N. Korea invades S. Korea without UN support, or when India nukes Pakistan without UN support. It's too volatile a world for one country to be judge, jury and exicutioner. I just hope there's a coalition before there's a war. I also think we're a lot more likely to see chem and bio weapons used against our troops and the Isreali's in the impending war.

It's too bad we (the US) has to work so hard for the "permission" to protect the rest of the world. There's no doubt, the things Powell devulged today, were details best kept to the people making strategic plans when we ultimately go to war. But thanks to the French, German and Chinese boneheads, most of the secrets had to be openned up. Everytime I hear those wimps complaining about going to war a couple thoughts come to mind:
1. What would they be saying when Sadam sends a nuke over and kills their family members and friends. Probably hear things like, "Why didn't GW do something months ago" and "I thought this government of ours was supposed to protect us by defending our freedom!"
2. What would our founding fathers say or more importantly, what would the heros say, who gave up their lives in pursuit of the freedoms that each one of us enjoy. Did they die in vain or is someone going to have enouph balls to stand up and do what needs to be done to take care of the evil, sadistic terrorists. We all have the the responsibility to protect freedom. For some, just standing behind and supporting those who are out there, laying their lives on the line, is doing your part. And, by the way, if you don't like it, you also have the freedom to get the #&!! out. No body is forcing you to stay here.
God Bless America!

Actually, they said this:
"Peace... has been our principle, peace is our interest, and peace has saved to the world this only plant of free and rational government now existing in it... However, therefore, we may have been reproached for pursuing our Quaker system, time will affix the stamp of wisdom on it, and the happiness and prosperity of our citizens will attest its merit. And this, I believe, is the only legitimate object of government and the first duty of governors, and not the slaughter of men and devastation of the countries placed under their care in pursuit of a fantastic honor unallied to virtue or happiness; or in gratification of the angry passions or the pride of administrators excited by personal incidents in which their citizens have no concern."
--Thomas Jefferson to Thaddeus Kosciusko, 1811. ME 13:41
Oh, don't give me that bull**** "Love it or Leave it" line. As Jefferson says, "My country, right or wrong; to be defended when right, and righted when wrong."

Yeticaster,well done! Maybe everyone didn't sleep through my history classes.

THINK IT'S TIME FOR ANOTHER SING ALONG!


Are you ready?

"If You're Happy And You Know It Clap your Hand". We all remember that one. Well lets get singing, we need some humor in here.


If you cannot find Osama, bomb Iraq.
If the markets are a drama, bomb Iraq.
If the terrorists are frisky,
Pakistan is looking shifty,
North Korea is to risky,
Bomb Iraq.

If we have no allies with us, bomb Iraq.
If we think someone has dissed us, bomb Iraq.
So to hell with the inspections,
Lets look tough for the elections,
Close your mind and take directions,
Bomb Iraq.

It's "pre-emptive non-agression", bomb Iraq.
Let's prevent this mass destruction, bomb Iraq.
They've got weapons we can't see,
And that's good enough for me,
"Cos it's all the proof I need,
Bomb Iraq.

If you never were elected, bomb Iraq.
If your mood is quite dejected, bomb Iraq.
If you think Saddam's gone mad,
With the weapons that he had,
( And he tried to kill your dad )
Bomb Iraq.

If your corporate fraud is growing', bomb Iraq.
Of your ties to it are showing', bomb iraq.
If your politices are sleazy,
And hiding that ain't easy,
And your manhood's getting queasy,
Bomb Iraq.

Fall in line and follow orders, bomb Iraq.
For our might knows not our borders, bomb Iraq
Disagree? We'll call it treason,
Let's make war not love this season,
Even if we have no reason ,
Bomb Iraq.


Now was'nt that fun.

For Yeticaster:

Speaking on behalf of all of us Veterans on this great site, your obvious bleeding heart liberal BS is pathetic.

You do however have every right to protest! I served this country to protect that right. Your "Bush got selected" comment is typical LIBERAL poor loser statement. Thank God we have Mr Bush in office. He atleast has the guts to lead and protect and not kiss the asses of those countries who have forgotten what this country has done for them. Thank God for the people that have protected our way of life and continue to do so.

Here is a History Lesson:
I know I know................. Clinton was such a great guy as I am sure you believe. What a great guy.... Bin Laden was handed to him, too busy with Monica to deal with that. China didn't have the capability to nuke our country via long range missiles....... Slick Willy helped them to fix that problem. etc... Thanks Bill!
I am sure you already know the rest of this story!

You do have the right to protest! In this GREAT COUNTRY people have fought and died to protect that right, I do believe however that seeing how you ungrateful Liberals like polls so much.... I believe the results are in! You are in the small minority here. Instead of making your hateful unwelcomed comments here, go to Hollywood! I bet you drive and SUV, and fish in a 22 ft. Sled gas guzzeling "OIL" burning Sled huh? So why don't you hop in that rig and go see Barbra Streisand, Bill and Hillary, Jesse Jackson, Sean Penn, Martin Sheen and the rest of the America Haters and Sadaam Hussein Apologists! You can all bash this country in private!

I sincerely feel sorry for you! I hope you never have to bury your kids because of a terrorist!
If you do I am sure you will blame the Red/White and Blue for it! Please don't forget 9/11!

One last thing......... I will never let people like you disrespect my country. Shooting first is sometimes a necessary trait! I don't believe in getting shot at especially when I see it coming. The U.N. is a frigging joke!
God Bless Mr. Bush, God Bless our Troops, God Bless America!

Thanks to all of you that have served and continue to serve and protect our GREAT COUNTRY! Thanks to all of you that love the this country and defend the belief of FREEDOM!

Tight lines to all of you!

Shame on all you America Bashers!

Yeti, give Barbra my best!

None of this is about our freedom, or even our safety. Hussein is a bad one, and the world will be better off when he is gone. But spouting BS about this being about our freedom just shows you've been reading the propaganda and not researching the facts. Hussein can't threaten our freedom. He can't possibly militarily threaten us. We can and will crush him like a bug. There is simply no scenario where he would invade the US or any of our territories. So it is simply absurd to talk about this being about our freedom. Freedom is about somebody limiting your actions - he can't do that.

What he can possibly do is threaten our safety, or more realisticly, the safety and freedom of countries in the middle east. However, until we started all this escalation, it made no sense for him to do so. Maybe he's got anthrax, mustard gas, or heaven forbid, an A-bomb. If he were to use them, he knows we would render the Euphrates Valley into a molten glass plain. Thats why we keep our own Weapons of Mass Destruction, of which we have more than any other country in the world.

In the last gulf war, Hussein had the poison gas. We told Iraq that it would be a VERY BAD THING if they used gas on our boys, and they understood that. Under any normal circumstances, our arsenal would keep us safe, regardless of what he has in the back room.

But we seem loathe to leave well enough alone. It's ironic, but we are rapidly pushing things towards the only scenario where it makes sense for him to use any of these weapons that he has. Think about it - we have the power to level Iraq. That power has deterrent value, right up until the time that we commit to a plan of action that results in Hussein's death or imprisonment. When Hussein sees that coming, given that he is a vengeful, evil mo-fo, if he has this stuff, which we seem to think that he does, what is the logical thing for him to do with it? That's right, use or it lose it, and if he's going down, taking out as many people with him as he can.

So think about that when millions are dying of smallpox in six months. All he has to do is infect one person, and get them on a plane to, say, Seatac. Or maybe he does ten, and sends them to Seatac, Tel Aviv, Heathrow, JFK, etc. You get the picture.

So, that's why the going to war issue is a little more complicated than just marching in there waving old glory. A lot of people could die, and some of them could be our schoolchildren and wives. Is cheap oil worth that?

But let's say that we're actually wrong about him having biologicals, and that we actually can take him out easily, and that we can do it (improbably) with none of our boys getting hurt. Unilateral invasion by the US is still not in our best interest, because it will further the image we have overseas of being bullies and tyrants ourselves. Our reputation for that behavior, deserved or not, allows characters like Bin Laden to motivate their cannon fodder. People don't fly airplanes into our buildings just because they think we make bad movies.

This is a conflict that we can win and lose at the same time. By acting like a bunch of cowboys in a weekend posse, we are playing into Saddam's hands, allowing him to paint his own propagandistic picture of us. That will contribute to our having to look over our shoulders for a very long time.

Don't get me wrong, I think it was a mistake not to go all the way to Baghdad in 1991, and I think something needs to be done now. We'll just be better off if we can engineer things so that world opinion is with us rather than against us.

Well said Silver Hilton.

John Lee - nice sing along even though I get the impression we might disagree on a few things.