Vic,

Maybe it's because man has always whacked them from the begging of time! It's only recreantly that some have now become do-gooders!

One thing you can count on the cycle will go on and on...Man will keep a whacking fish!

They are only fish. . . . Not humans!

Cowlitzfisherman

Cowwlitzfisherman

40 years ago there were guys catching big wild kings in the puget sound rivers. Not any more. Why because those guys (sporties, tirbal, commercial) said "they are only fish". They are talking about removing some dikes on the Sakgit and there are a bunch of people saying "What are you doing that for they are only fish". I don't blame any of those guys for catching too many fish or building dikes and ruining the habitat. That was the way things were done back then and they didn't really know the consequences of their actions. If they did I am sure they would have done things differently (most of them anyway).

The point behind the catch and release is that some of us have learned our lesson, and want to preserve what we have left. Most of us don't have a say in tribal fishing or environmental factors. One thing we can do is to try and minimize the impact that we as a sporting community have on this resource.

I don't think that steelnerves was trying to offend you (neither am I). I think the point Steelnerves was trying to make (forgive me if I am wrong) was that you don't seem as concerned about your fishery as much as you are about your harvest opportunity. That is one of old attitudes that got us in trouble to begin with.

Just for the record whack em and stack em is fine if you are fishing for hatchery fish (Drifter for me that means Salmon too).

Vic!

You don't drive a van with tinted windows, do you!!

Or work for the cable company!

I hope not!!


Todd.

P.S. Vic! Sorry! It's an inside joke! Kind of!

The difference is that wild steelhead return in much smaller numbers. When a salmon run is 40 thousand, 60 thousand, or in some cases 300 thousand, I don't mind taking a couple.

I think this state would have more hatcheries If it wasnt for the enviromental extremist groups sue-ing the wdfw every chance they get.

More fish mean more money for the general economy and inturn kudos to state government.


By the way, you got it backwards. I think you meant 10' rods and 12' leaders. Springer fishing at the barrier.

so you to would have us bonk all the wild fish to make room for more hatcheries.So in turn you get in line with the rest of the snaggers and have the time of your life,selfish to say the least.Typical of human nature though.You are also the person tailgaiting on the highway because this world was put here for just you nothing else,right?

I am far from an extremist but am willing to look outside the box far enough to realize that these fish hold the least importance to man but are a large part of the circle of life.There value to the food chain is huge and to have man and "science"in charge of that much scares me.Sorry man and science has failed misserably at trying to controll mothernature everytime.

Stilly bum -
Many of Western Washington Rivers have more wild steelhead returning than wild chinook salmon.

Are You release all unmarked chinook? In Puget sound? In the Straits? On the Pacific Ocean of Washington? Off Vacouver Island? They all have wild Puget Sound chinook.

Sorry still see a double standard.

Tight lines
Smalma

Quote from Smalma:
"The reason that hatchery fish don't bite is two fold. The first of course is that we exert a high selective pressure against the best biters (we kill them all before they spawn). The second is that the longer the fish is in the river the more likely it is that it will be caught and killed. Therefore the most successful spawners (those that get to the hatchery) are those that arrive at the river in an advance state of sexually maturity (not likely to bite) and zoom up the river.

Simple solution - Release Hatchery Fish, only wild fish may be retained. J/K

Perhaps a user controlled system that selects towards the better biting hatchery spawners would work.

Simply ask anglers to tag or mark the hatchery fish they C&R and reward them with two bright fish from the collection traps for each fish released.

Might be some who cheat but handing them some surplus fish beats having them poach or snag and this seems to be a better use for surplus fish than the catfood factory.

Who was that masked man that posted; "You don't drive a van with tinted windows, do you!! Or work for the cable company!"?

Who would know better about those kinds of things then one who has claimed to have been working for the Attorney Generals Office?..jk





Copwlitzfisherman

CFM,

Have you ever noticed my fishing rig at the Cowlitz boat launch?







Fish on...

Todd

Stilly bum - What river in this state gets a return of 40,000 Wild Chinook. I don't know of it let alone one that gets a return of 300,000.

What about wild Halibut, Ling Cod, and Snapper should we release all of them too?

Todd

That's pretty scary!!!

Cowlitzfisherman

Is it 4WD?
Good Fishing, DB

Caught a 17# native buck last year(yes I keep wild fish) fish counter said it was an unclipped hatchery fish. She said it had fewer spines in its dorsal fin than a native.

All rivers, save a few, should be catch and release. Close most of the hatcheries and take the money spent on them and apply it to habitat repair and enforsement. Stop the poachers, stop the snaggers, and stop the cheaters. Not to mention all the bad logging practices.

Have the Native Americans open up more gambling establishments and guide services. Buy as much farmed fish as you would normally would bonk, in fact buy more. After all, pen raised fish have done what the courts could not do. They have taken the economics out of the Indian fisheries.

The rivers will take care of themselves. Put in brood boxes and eventually you will have an indiginous run, if you leave them for another day. I have fished Washington for over 43 years. I remember when the rivers were black with backs. What's wrong with this picture.

Or just hop in the 4 wheeler head down to Blue Creek with the $20k sled, the 40 pounds of gear, and don't forget the most inportant item... The baseball bat... but that is just my opinion

Smalma, no double standard on my part. I don't fish the salt.

Drifter, we're talking salmon, not just chinook. Coho, pink, and chum runs in the hundreds of thousands are not unheard of.

Just where did I say anything about bonking all the nates to make way for more hatcheries?

I sure hate how people twist what I say till the point is lost in B.S!

Its common sense that the more available hatchery fish are, the less likely nates in the so called wild rivers will be targeted!

but when complete ningcompoops decide to shut down the hatcherys that leaves just nates for people to bonk.

Its a fact of life that people always have and always will bonk fish! that is neither right nor wrong its just a prefference on both sides of the fence.

at least with hatcheries in production there are some fish to bonk.

without the hatcheries the fish are toast or should I say barbequed.

The hatcheries were put into effect after the decline of salmon and steelhead so dont even try to tell me they are the problem.

nets! nets! nets! nets nets nets! nets! nets! nets!

Snagging is for pansies, Oh I noticed your from bremerton was that you snagging kings at gorst with a buzz bomb and a 3/0 treble hook in two feet of water?

Chum and pinks run in the 100s of thousands for a reason.
I personally believe that we should not have hatchery chum or pinks. They're in mostly good shape for the most part that they can be managed as wild runs. With a few exceptions like the Hood Canal pinks, summer chum, other depressed stocks, chum and pinks are doing fine in general.
However, I am opposed to the WDFW's decision during the '01 pink season to increase the catch limit to 6. I could understand if someone had a bunch of mouths to feed, but if this decision was made just so that everyone could fill their freezers with pinks then I feel that our fisheries managers have been screwing us over.
Pinks and Chum are critical to maintaining the biological health of all our streams, because of the nutrients their carcasses release to the riparian environment and into the entire watershed. Without them, our chinook and coho runs would not be as healthy. When I look at the numbers put out by the WDFW on the numbers of salmon carcasses returned to Washington streams, I see both disappointment and hope.
Bad news: We don't have nearly enough salmon carcasses in our streams to input carbon & nitrogen back into the nutrient cycle.
Good news: The number of carcasses being put back into rivers is going up.
Conclusion: We need salmon to return in sufficient numbers such that A: a commercial, tribal & sport fishery can be sustained, B: wildlife dependent upon salmon as a source of food in lean times can rebound, and C: forests on public lands receive marine derived nutrients that act like "fertilizer".

To those of you who care about our wild salmonids, please bear in mind next time you're out on the saltchuck that although it's legal to keep that beautiful 25lb wild king, remember that you just kept it from perpetuating the chinook run.
Let's take the conservation measures one step further. We got hatchery fish for a reason: They're to be caught.

Hatcheries are esential to the survival of our sport.I have never said otherwise on this bourd.Believe it or not this is not the first time that this discusion has come about here in Bobs world.

To say that hatcheries relieve the preasure on the wild fish is far from the truth.Now that all the hatch runs are over has everybody quit fishng?No.They move onto the few rivers that are still open and continue fishing.I get to witness the hatchery fisheries over here on the canal and ethics is not taught r practiced by anybody.It is sick and unfortunately it is a first time learning experience for alot of new to the erea fishermen.It scares me to think that they are learning how to fish at a hatchery and then taking these ethics out after our wild fish.

Even if our wild runs were at historical highs I do not believe they would last an androminous generation against the sheer numbers of people fishing these days.Sports fishermen like to point there fingers and all the blame at the comercial and tribal nets but the truth is that the sport fishermen has a huge impact also.

I am going to fall back to my little world for a second and reitorate something that bothers me about both hatcheries and c/r as fish managing tools.

You looked down and saw that I am from B-town.When I look west I see the grand Olympic mountains.I have spent most of my 35 years exploring the hood canal and its tribs.The Dose,Duk,Skoke are my favorite rivers.Look in the regs and you will see that they are C/r exept for hatch steel.Now dig a little further and you will see that the northern two get a measly 10,500 smolt plants every year randomly dispersed into the system,i.e no final destination in the system just the river itself.The skoke gets more like 50,000.So the state has based a june through feb season on a few hatch fish returning in nov-dec.Also notice that there are no restrictions to facilitate the c/r part of the deal,i.e you can play c/r with a treble and a worm.Begining to see why you hit a nerve with your talk about wiping out the nates to make room for the hatcheries?

What happen to the steelhead on these rivers??Sportsfishermen followed the states rules and over harvessted them!!You can easily argue that the salmon were victems of the almighty comercial dollar but the steelhead on the north end of the canal were sim-ply over fished by the sports fishermen.when the numbers dropped what did the state do?Add hatcheries of course.Now it is 2003 and alot of very inteligent people are scratching there heads trying to figure out what is wrong?Some of the most pristine watersheds in the pacific northwest that should be teaming with wild fish and they are not.

To end this I will say that I am not against hatcheries and bonking fish.It is not my thing but I happily remember my younger days of wanting to kill the fish I caught.Do a search on this bourd and you will see that I am not a die hard supporter of wild c/r either unless it is a state wide all wild steelhead thing.I am afraid the state will use it like they presently are in my back yard.

As far as my pansy ars fishing the jarstad creek fishery,my friends got a kick out of that.Later this summer I wil be sure to email you my new website and I wil show you where my pansy ars fishes and invite you along for a guided trip,if you think you can.

pansy ars fishing.com

I will say this one more TIME! I never said anything about bonking natives to make way for the hatchery fish!




and as far as where the fish in the canal went I know exactly where they went, so did my Grandfather and Great Grandfather, but few people agree evidently!


I get off work at midnight and use glowing 1/16th ounce jigs and my bass rod what a blast dont think you could beat that. By the way very few are fowl hooked but it happens every once and awhile. during the day they hit krocodile spoons off the rocks but you got to get away from the line rippers.

If thats the canyon I am pretty sure it is. my Grandad had 25 fish days until you know who did you know what.