John Lee Hookum, I feel sorry for you.

This has been such a tough decision for me (as to whether I support the coming war against Iraq). My thoughts were just about perfectly listed by CWU girl. I, also support the troops - my belief is that the Commander in Chief is wrong - not acting with sinister intent - just wrong. I resent the pro-war folks trying to "own" the Support our troops stance. If we learned anything from the nightmare that was Vietnam, we learned that the troops were carrying out their orders - that was their job.
I also hear a lot of the pro-war folks talking about liberating the Iraqi people. A noble thought, but I believe to reach this conclusion requires a two-step decision process.
1. Is it a legitimate aim of US Foreign Policy to liberate oppressed peoples around the world? If yes, then -
2. What is the decision process to determine who will be the benefit of that Foreign Policy?

My belief is that if my tax dollars are to be spent on US Foreign Policy (or borrowed against future revenues via deficit spending) then we must undergo the above analysis. In performing that for myself, mindful of the fact that Billions of people find themselves living under oppresive regimes, the Iraqi people fall within the top ten oppressed peoples. I'm not certain that with the unintended consequences of war with Iraq (see CWU girl's excellent post) that they do rise to #1.

My thoughts - and you know, I might be wrong. Will the pro-war folks make the same admission?

Why do you all think that America's symbol is that of the "Eagle"?

It's pretty simple "for the many" to understand! We are always flying higher then most of the other "birds" are, and we have a keener eye for what is going on below us!

My one any only post on this topic!


Cowlitzfisherman

Maguana,

Don't feel sorry for. Feel sorry for the lives that will be lost unnecessarily. Feel sorry for the young American Soldiers that will die without the chance to catch that next big fish that you can continue to fish for.

I lost friends and family in Vietnam and I'm am sure that they would love to still have the chance to grab the fishing rod and drown a worm every now and then. So don't feel sorry for me feel sorry the brave young men that will die while your head is in the sand and you brain deactivated.

Feel sorry for the Gulf War vets that are suffering from the last war. Iraq is no immediate threat to our security. It is us thats willing to start this mess without U N or World support. Why can't we wait a few more weeks and give the inspectors a chance to finish the job? Is it because we have so many men over there now and we can't have them come home without killing a bunch of Sandni***rs for Isreal. I say let them continue to disarm as the inspectors are indicating they are doing.

Again I plead with you to kill your TV and try to understand the difference between good choices and bad choices. We can be brainwashed into believing anything, if feed the same old crap day and night. Thats how propaganda works. Remember the Mass Media can be worst than Agent Orange and is a WMD if applied to that end.

This president is the worst that I can remember in my life time. I am an Independant so I am free from prejudice when making this comparison. I will be glad when he and his Enron buddy's take all of there Loot and ride off into the sunset leaving this government and it's increasing deficit alone. That is all I will contribute to this thread.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste!

Hiding our heads in the sand will not prevent another 9-11. Hell, who were we invading when the towers fell? They dont need a reason other than hatred. Some of you are making it sound like we can reason with these people...reasonable people dont blow themselves up for Allah. Whether we go into Iraq or not we will always be a target. Believe it or not President Bush has a lot more information on the situation than you do. I know he shouldn't keep secrets from you, even in the name of national security, but it happens, get over it. If you were in Iraq, you'd lose your friggin head for speaking against Saddam. Thank god your lucky enough to be in america! It's going to happen, put the tie die away and support our troops.

Alot of those people are blowing themselves up because their land was taken by Isreal. There are Jews living in houses that were built by Palestinians. They were forced to move. They hate that they were forced to move. Would any of you feel different? 9-11 happened because of this. If Saddaam lends support to terrorism, then we should go after him, to prove a point to other nations that support terrorism. But to stop terrorism we will have to address Isreal.

Bush gained favor in my book when, not long after 9-11, he b*tched at the Isrealis for their aggression. I noticed he dosn't anymore........

I say, You F*** with America. Directly or even the thought. Be prepared to F***ing DIE!!! You Kill and American be prepared for everything you have ever known to be decimated!!! You want to play with the BULL??? You're gonna get stuck with the horns!! Got it?? Pretty simple damn rules!!

The object of war is not to die
for your country but to make
the other ******* die for his !!!!

Gen. Patton


DUTY, HONOR, COUNTRY!!!


PS hookem. I DO NOT FEEL SORRY FOR OUR SOLDIERS!!!

I salute everyone of them. Being a vet of Somalia and the Gulf I know what you are going through....

US ARMY. 68L '89-'95

"Naturally the common people dont want war, but after all it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is allways a simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a parliment, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can allways be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them you are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country"

Hermann Goering-HITLERS REICH MARSHALL quoted at the Nuremberg trials

Anyone else notice how much more aggressive Isreal has gotten towards the Palestinians since we've moved some troops over there?

How come we didn't do anything to Qatar when we discovered that their Crown Prince helped the #2 man in the al Quida escape capture?

How come we're not doing anything to Saudi Arabia when most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi?

When the US disregards authority by telling the UN we don't care what you think, we're going to do what we want; what message does that send to the world? To our kids?

As long as Hans Blix is making progress -- and the eyes of the entire world are on Iraq -- why are we in such a rush to go to war?

What do we say to the mother standing by the flag-draped coffin when she says, "If you'd just let the weapons inspectors continue, my soldier would still be alive."

"No one is more anti-war than a soldier." -- General Tommy Frank, Cdr CenCOM

Colin Powell referring to a best case worst case scenario:

"We are looking at a full range of options, from a walk in the sun to destruction of the oil fields."

Somewhere in the middle is the use of chemical weapons, troop casualties, terrorist attacks, and the war escalating beyond Iraq.

chappy

Don't you know how to post anything about fishing? This is a fishing site you know, give us a break!

I just went through every posting that you have ever made on this board, and this is what I had found that YOU have stated about youself:

You love cougars
You love sea lions
You love orcas
You hate guns...you hate guns... and you hate guns!
You are a lobbyist
You hate both Bush's
You hate republicans
You hate Chaney
You hate G. Bush because he has increased the hatchery programs from 15 to 58 million dollars
You hate both Bush and Cheney because they both live in homes that are "environmentalist's wet dream"
You love the U.N.
You hate having wars with any nation that produces oil
You like to read and quote Nazi's stuff
You think that CNN, CBS, ABC, and NBC are all "Brainwashed"
You don't care much for Israel
You want to boycott all Safeway stores
You an "admitted hippie and Liberal"
You are a professional fighter, marshal art expert/wrestling champion/ prp-boxer and you knock out teeth and brake people noses and bones
You know how to tie jigs

It sure appears to me, that your agenda is more political then it about adding informative impute about fishing. I would suggest that everyone else also do a search and see just how far off I am.

Sorry chappy, but it's pretty much what you have stated in those 20 postings of yours!


Lets all get back to talking about our fish again and save this war talk for other websites!


Cowlitzfisherman

Cowfish, please refer to 4salts post in another thread that points out the faults of your last post. Again I ask you to read 4salts comments in that thread... and do it slowly and methodically in order for you to stop making the same mistake and expecting different results. (I believe that behavior is considered insanity if it continue to repeat itself.)

Again none of us are perfect, and it can take some of us longer to understand what is so simple for others to grasp. Sometimes putting away the ego can help us to become better people.

The mind is a terrible thing to waste.

goharley,

John Lee Hookum

Thanks for asking me to refer to the other reply
This was my reply to that post!

chappy

You are right, you probably would kick my a$$ in a boxing match! But before you were done with me you sure would know that I was there!

It's really not that hard for a guy that is 25 years younger to beat up a guy that is 56, but I am sure that you can find a way to debate that one too. But if you want to debate fishing issues, let's go for it kid!

As for you 4Salt,

You are right!
When a person makes over 700 posting, he is surely going to get a few like you pretty excited, especially when they disagree about many issues. You are also right when you said that I was passionate and outspoken. Apparently, in your mind those are bad qualities. That's funny, because that is the exact same way that I feel about you.

You're also right about me loving hatcheries and bonking hatchery fish! What's so bad in your mind about that? You say that I "?love to peek into board members profiles, and try to use the information that you find to discredit the opinion of the poster that you dislike." Well if you put that information in your profile for us to read, what do you have to fear?

You can read my profile and do as you may with it. I have put myself and the view of and in front of the public for the last 17 years concerning fishing issues. That's why your worded attacks on me are so darn funny! On a score of 1-10, your attacks might make a 6.

You should spend the time and read my 700 plus posts. You will find that I am consistent with what I say, regardless if you agree with me or not. Again, 4Salt, I will agree with you that I have "got nads accusing anyone of "Furthering their agenda."

You're also right that I am probably more guilty of that than ANYONE else on the board! But almost every post (over 700) that I have made, concern fish or fish-law related issues. If I am wrong, show me!

Finally, 4Salt, apparently our chemistry just doesn't mix to well, but we should both try to correct that problem. Are you game... I am!

P.S. thanks for the good words Darin!

Cowlitzfisherman

Sure Cowlitz, I'm game!

Our biggest problem as I see it is that we don't seem to be conveying our true intent to each other, and defensiveness is getting in the way.

I don't dislike you, I don't even know you, just like you don't know me. All we see is the board personalities that we portray when making posts here. Word has it that you've done a lot to benefit sportfishing.

Our opinions are usually so polar opposite that I get a kick out of some of the things you say, and the positions that you take, just like you probably do mine.

What you've just written is a perfect example. Where did I say that any of the virtues and positions I listed about you were bad, or were wrong?

I was merely giving you a dose of the same medicine that you were giving to Chappy.

As far as any personal issues you think I may have with you, I think it stems from my overall sense of fairness. When I see someone get bullied, or see obvious (to me anyway) mis-information being spread as gospel truth, like you, I feel compelled to remedy the situation.

Again, it's nothing personal against you Cowlitz, maybe I just need to take things a little (OK, maybe a LOT! ) less seriously sometimes.

So on that note, in the immortal words of Superfly,

PEACE!

4Salt

Peace back!

Cowlitzfisherman

BigShark, CWU Girl -both well stated and said!

Cheers, Darin