Are we now seeing a special breed of fly fishers who are becoming snaggers? Or are we seeing snaggers who are becoming fly fishers?

Since I don't know this river, I will leave the answer to you! But why would WDFW take such action if fly fishers weren't snagging these fish? And one more question, does using a weighted line that sinks qualify as using a weighted fly? If not why?

Rule change:
Weighted Flies Prohibited on the North Fork

Stillaguamish River

Action: Unlawful to fish with weight, including bead eyes, attached to the leader, line or fly.

Effective date: August 2, 2003 through September 30, 2003.

Species affected: All game fish.

Location: North Fork Stillaguamish River from its mouth to Swede Heaven Bridge.

Reason for action: Harassment by anglers using weighted flies is placing undue stress on this depressed wild population of Chinook.

Other information: This change is being put into effect to protect the spawning Chinook population while still providing recreational fishing opportunities on sea-run cutthroat and steelhead. With the low water conditions this year, Chinook have become concentrated in the few pools that remain in the river. Water temperatures in the river during summer low flow water conditions may exceed 70EF, which causes thermal stress to the fish.

Information contact: Chad Jackson, District Fish Biologist, (425) 775-1311 ext. 113

Anyone know the answers to my questions?

Cowlitzfisherman

I fish the north fork a lot. Though this year I haven't hit it as much because of the conditions and lack of fish.
Harassment of the kings isn't limited to one type of person and not all of them are trying to snag. It ranges from guys who think those big fish they see are steelhead, to people who know better but are desperate for a tug at the end of the day, to tarheels who are only using a fly rod to make their snagging draw less attention.

"But why would WDFW take such action if fly fishers weren't snagging these fish?"
Because targeting kings on the north fork is illegal. Trying to hook one in the mouth is just as illegal as trying to hook one in the ass.

"And one more question, does using a weighted line that sinks qualify as using a weighted fly? If not why?"
No it doesn't. I'm not sure why. I suppose the state could have made it so that we can only use floating lines. Most people fish floaters anyway when it gets low.

For someone who admittedly doesn't know the river, you imply a lot about the people who fish it.

You see quite a bit of this on the SW streams also. They have almost the same regs on the Kalama. People still can use weighted flies but no weight on the line. A weighted line allows the fly to get down. It would be impossible to fish ANY species unless trying to catch fish on the surface. The weight of the hook alone wouldn't allow the fly to get to species that hole up in deep water. I've seen people go as far as putting a fly reel on a casting rod to try to catch fish. I haven't fished those northern streams much but I'm sure the snaggers have just found a new tool to perfect they're "art". If they got rid of all weight on the leader, tippet and fly it would make it much more difficult to snag fish. Of course if they is a hook and line, some people will find a way to snag fish.

~steelymann~

Fly fishing is the ultimate flossing technique. See it all the time especially on chums.

I am not saying that all flyfishermen are are flossers. I fly fish too, mostly for trout and panfish.

I am saying that there are some fly fishermen out there that are flossing and some that dont even know it.

Cupo

You're too much!!

You got the gonads to say; " It ranges from guys who think those big fish they see are steelhead, to people who know better but are desperate for a tug at the end of the day, to tarheels who are only using a fly rod to make their snagging draw less attention."

And then you say;" For someone who admittedly doesn't know the river, you imply a lot about the people who fish it."

Hello- hello-hello!!! Who said what about who ???????

All I did was to ask the question!

You give the answer!

Cowlitzfisherman

Good Post Microp...

The way I hear it is that the salmon used to frustrate the crap out of the early flyfishermen in the Northwest.

That is, of course, until they learned to floss.

That may be why the want the steelhead and cutthroat all to their selves. At least these fish will actually take a fly.

I will beg to differ with anyone. I've never fished Alaska, so not bringing up facts from what happens up there. But I've fished DRIES for kings, chums, and silvers and have them readily rise and hit the fly. I've also fished damp flies and watched the fish come up to them. They sit just below the surface, you can watch the fly work. It's the guys who run sinktips with SUPER long leaders that are doing alot of the flossing. Your sinktip acts as your "weight" most drift users have. The leader should compare. Mine never get longer then 4' max. If you've worked one, or seen one work, knows this isn't flossing. If that's the case, all drift fisherman who are using short leaders and weight are flossers. I know there are guys who floss, but that's on both spectrums. In every method of fishing, you have guys who are ethical, and you have some that aren't, and some who are borderline. That's just nature of any sport. Now, long leaders are ok with flyfishing if you're running a dry (but that's trout). But I've readily had king, silver, and chum greadily hit my flies. I even watched one come up and slash at my fly as I stripped it in on the Chehalis. The king came up and slashed by fly as it was about 10' from the boat. But I a good flyfisherman/woman knows how to fish them without snagging.

I fly and gear fish. I'm far from the best at either, but have done better then some at both methods. But it's all in gear setup. I prefer not to fish weighted flies. I will undertie an oversized hook to add some weight to drop it down, but not sink it like a rock. I only have a few weighted flies for really deep holes. But I rarely use them, I'll use gear there.

It's one of those things were a few do it, so it becomes the so called "norm". Most good, or knowledgeable (some guys are both ) fish ethically. I know some that won't use ANY weight at all, not even chain eyes (which add virtually no weight, but a buggy look). It's knowing your water, and knowing how to tie a fly that will catch them. I use irritator or "food" patterns for salmon. In the salt flux, I use mostly food (shrimp, squid, baitfish, etc) and some of my dries (wogs). In the tribs, flashy flies like flashabou flies, lots of hackle, etc. I know alot of flyguys, and most are the same. Just knowing what you're doing.

Cowlitz,

Cupo is dead nuts right on that one. If you have fished the NF at all you know that it shrinks considerably in the summer as stated by your reprint of the WDFW rule change. Alot of unknowleagable fisherman think these black silouttes (sp) on the bottom are steelhead, and yes the locals twist the rules and basically float fish with a fly rod.

A floating line and a dry or wet fly is all a guy needs when the water drops this low. The local public doesnt understand that and is dredging the king holes with float and jig imitations. The WDFW is putting in affect what the average fisherman should realize by just looking at the water.

Hey bank walker

I did not say that Cupo was wrong!!

I have never been there and know absolutely nothing about the river! All I said was he was the guy who was calling people names, not me. I am the first to admit I know 0 about this river. I never implied a thing about the people who fished it, it was Cupo who did that.

I don't know crap about that river, and that is why I asked for some one else to give me the right answers!!!


Cowlitzfisherman

That big blue vein pulsing on your forhead is a warning.
I am simply asking you to be POSITIVE.
Please don't give me forty sentenses for my three.
Chill out.
Dave
Info? I caught a 25 lb Chinook right off Meadow this morning. Green Hot Spot,army truck candlefish hooch down 60 in 210.
If I can figure out how to post I will.
out
Yes, I released it.

Cowlitzfisherman

Whats the matter seastrike

Were you afraid to answer my questions? I may have that big blue vein, but I sure wouldn't trade it for that big yellow shirk that some guys seem to have! If you know what I mean; and I think you know what I mean

Cowlitzfisherman

cfm
I think you need an ice cold beverage and you need to do some more fishing. Like I said before you are getting off on getting a debate going lately and it is very noticeable. Not putting you down nor do I want to debate something I don't care about with you. Enjoy life you only get one chance.

Glowball

Not trying to put you down, but you are starting to sound like one of seastrike fishing bodies!

What are you becoming … the board new self appointed local shrink?

You are begging to worry me. You need to live your own life and let others debates issues that do not concern you.

Cowlitzfisherman

Cowlitzfisherman this just cracks me up i gotta learn this technique you don't even have to leave your desk to catch fish a couple of questions and a rule change by the WDFW and you already got your limit.

By the way some of us appreciate the controversial fishing related topics you bring up and your efforts with anything that has to do with the Cowlitz river

Thanks stlhdfishn

I just can't understand what glowball problem is lately.
Some jerk Say; "I have fished with a couple of other people on this board lately and you are our joke." And he thinks that I should just kiss this guy on his forehead and say nighty- night sweetie to him!

Well, that's just not going to happen!


Cowlitzfisherman

Wow cfm! That was one long thrashing!

I have silvers and chums chase flies all the time. The will follow it on the swing and nail it, that is of course IF they aren't decorated like a christmas tree, complete with size 5 blue foxes, size 12 corkies with 4/0 hooks, and my personal favorite.... the infamous treble with lead attached below the hook (I doubt its the fly fishermen that do such a nice job decorating these fish.) I've seen some pretty nice flossing jobs done with drift gear using a small corky, a little yarn, and a long leader!

LOL

Fly Fishing Haters Unite!

WDFW should post signs near the few holes that kings stack up in reinforcing the fact that it is illegal to target kings and bring awareness to the uniformed. As for the blatent poachers........good luck catching them.

I apologize fo ruffling your featheres cfm. Having been on this board for quite awhile I thought I would help you pull the blinders off and see what he was talking about. I understand this is a place for you to vent. Vent away I suppose you've earned it.

I personnally have never met anyone on this board so no I'm not in cahoots with him.

Have any of you Fly Fishing Haters read Steelheader69 or Elkrun posted? It seems that you just ignored the fact that they both have witnessed salmon chasing a fly and not flossing the salmon. I just got back from the OP and watched a silver on the Quilliute (sp) chase and hammer my pink bunny hair, marabou, and flash fly. Don't tell me this is flosing. Sadly I lost this fish but I did catch one on a size 3 Blue Fox, I'm not a fly purist.

This is compleatly off topic but how come it is gear fishermen that trash up our rivers with garbage? :p

i see a guy who "fly fishes" on the carbon for kings, and anyone who fishes the carbon knows a king couldnt see a fly, nor could a king see a hotspot/hoochie combo in that water color (sarcasm), give me a break, he says, oh yeah there takin the fly today..when im fishing a red corky with scent, no pickups at all..i guess its back to "fly fishing err flossing"