Grandpa,

Why do you call the Yakima a boutique fishery? That labeling strikes me as too similar to Rob's extremism (everyone who disagrees with Rob is wrong. Sorry Rob.). The Yakima is a productive trout stream, however, no river is productive enough to permit a general harvest of wild trout these days. It's the too many people thing that you often mention. In a state of too many people, full time C&R on the Yakima apparently is the best way of maximizing angling recreation. Otherwise, it would be in a perpetual state of being nearly fished out, as each fish reaches the minimum size limit, it gets bonked, keeping the spawning population, perpetually too small. It seems like the Yakima regulations aren't boutique, they are simply a reflection of how to have quality fishing for wild trout in a state with 6 million citizens.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Salmo G: You are 100% right about the Yakima. I have fished it regularly since 1972. Back then it was 5 fish a day over 8 inches; I believe I have that right. My memory is not what it once was. Back in the 5 fish days there wasn't much pressure and we occasionally caught our five fish, with an average size of perhaps 11 inches. Later the rules went to 2 a day over 15 inches. We immediately saw an increase in angling pressure and we began catching more and bigger fish. Finally the rules went to zero retention. We then began having some 15 fish days and occasionally got fish in the 18 to 20 inch range, AND the pressure went through the roof.

While I admit the population has increased since 1970s' I firmly believe that the C&R rules dramatically increased the number of users on the river. It is definitely not a boutique fishery. It is one of the most heavily fished trout streams in the northwest. If it were to go back to a 5 fish limit it would soon become a boutique fishery as only a relative small number of special interest anglers would care to participate in the resultant poor fishing.

I am by no means a 100% C&R advocate, but we need to limit catches to the level where we have a healthy population of spawners to keep the system healthy. In some cases that will mean C&R. Not for elitism, but for healthy streams. Fortunately this often makes for more angler day of utilization.

Grandpa ??? Have you ever posted anything about "fishing"... Do you go fishing ???? Do you have a Rod and reel ???

Are you really Rush Limbaugh???

Plunker... there are people on this earth that think "your" made of "meat"... mostly your head.

B-RUN STEELY

And there are plenty of people who feel the same about you!

Yeah? Try sleeping with your sister or daughter and let us know how the offspring turn out.

Dan S.

I think you can travel to the Ozarks and get the answer to that question. Or check out Europe's royal families.

Maybe someone should tell you the story about the birds and the bees Dan

So what's your point? Are you trying to tell us that all other species of fish, flora and fauna don’t' interbreed within itself?

Cowlitzfisherman

Surecatch, you must be referring to the fishery above Roza Dam . Below the dam it is still 2 fish over 12" and under 20" can still be retained.

cfm,

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking.

Dan

What I was referring to was your statement saying "Yeah? Try sleeping with your sister or daughter and let us know how the offspring turn out"

I thought your reply was saying that if you mate with your daughter or sister you will not survive as a specie. Maybe you are right about what happens to humans when they interbreed too closely, but that same reasoning doesn't work or apply in the fish world or other species such as bees! (that's why I asked you about the birds and the bees).

Example; a single bee hive may have well over 5000 bees in it. Ever single bee came from the same single queen (worker bees only live about 50 days). Even those she (the queen) may have mated with a few drones, she has mated with her sons. The queen before her, also has mated with her son too. Which in your comparison would be like humans mating with their own sons and daughters.

Is that any clearer, or are we talking about totally different things? Do I have to get into the "sex of a worm" next?

Cowlitzfisherman

So, a fish is a bee and a worm?

I'm trying to keep up, but...............

Bee reproduction:

http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/haploiddiploid.html

Doesn't sound like any fish I know of.

The genetic deterioration caused by inbreeding doesn't often show up in the first generation, it usually takes repeatedly turning the genes back on themselves before the mutations we all associate with inbreeding occur.

At least, that's what what my sister/girlfriend told me.

Dan/H20

I think that you may find this artical interesting about wild fish and their breeding habits.

October 28, 2003

Landmark study finds interbreeding between wild Atlantic salmon and escaped farmed salmon is leading to the extinction of wild salmon, and that restocking programs to 'boost' depleted wild populations are probably having the opposite effect.

The Atlantic salmon is much admired. Flavorsome, high in protein and a rich source of vitamins and omega-3 oils, it ranks among the world's most popular foods. As a sport fish, the Atlantic salmon's reputation is unmatched. And then there's its incredible spawning run, when the fish navigates across 1,500 miles (2,400 kilometers) of ocean, before fighting up rapids and falls, to reach the very same waters in which it was born.

But according to an excellent National Geographic article, scientists say Salmo salar, the "leaper" in Latin, is now losing this ability, which could lead to the extinction of wild populations throughout Europe and North America. The reason, they say, is the creation of a new race of mongrel salmon - the product of escaped farmed salmon breeding with wild fish.

The warning follows a ten-year experiment in County Mayo, western Ireland, where researchers monitored successive generations of hybrid offspring produced by wild and farmed salmon. Reporting their findings in the scientific journal Royal Society Proceedings B, they found these hybrid fish have poor survival rates at sea and are unable to find their way back to freshwater to spawn.

An estimated two million farm salmon are escaping from marine cages in the North Atlantic each year, equivalent to about 50 percent of all wild adult salmon in the sea. The worst single incident occurred last year, when 600,000 fish were lost during a storm in the Faroe Islands. Research suggests as many as one-third of adult salmon entering Norwegian rivers are escaped farmed fish, while it's estimated they now outnumber native salmon by ten to one in some North American rivers.

While it has been known for some time that escaped farmed salmon are breeding in rivers with native fish, scientists say the research provides the first scientific evidence that long-term interbreeding could lead to the extinction of wild populations.

"As repeated escapes [of farmed salmon] are now a common occurrence in some areas, a cumulative effect is produced generation on generation, which could lead to extinction of endangered wild populations," said Andy Ferguson of the School of Biology and Biochemistry, Queen's University, Belfast, who was joint leader of the study.

Leading fish geneticist, Kjetil Hindar, from the Norwegian Institute for Nature Research, describes the research as "seminal," adding: "A long-term study of the fitness of cultured salmon in the wild is unique and the results will be of major importance to those dealing with the biology and management of salmonid fishes throughout the world."

The experiment, carried out at Ireland's Marine Institute research facility on the Burrishoole River System, was designed to simulate the impacts of fish farm escapees now present in rivers throughout northwest Europe and northeast North America. The Burrishoole research team planted known numbers of farm and wild-origin salmon eggs on spawning beds. Young fish were also reared in hatchery tanks and released as smolts, the stage at which salmon head to sea before traveling to northerly feeding grounds. The team then monitored returning adults, caught in traps, coastal nets and by anglers, using DNA profiling to identify parentage.

The researchers found that farm salmon showed an estimated lifetime success of just two percent compared with native stock, while the survival rate of adult hybrid salmon was between 27 and 89 percent compared with wild fish. Even more startling was the finding that 70 percent of second-generation, wild-farm hybrids died within a few weeks of hatching due to outbreeding depression. Ferguson says this is caused by genetic incompatibilities between parents but does not occur until the second generation when recombination of the parental genes takes place.
With potential young wild salmon instead being converted into hybrids because of the presence of escaped farmed fish, the study suggests the resulting decline in adult survival could eventually wipe out a population. Ferguson says the influence of escapee salmon also removes significant genetic differences between wild populations. For instance, this may affect their ability to home in on native breeding rivers when returning as adults to spawn.

Ferguson added: "Maintaining genetic variation is important for any species to continue to adapt to changing environmental conditions such as global warming. However, even if all wild populations were genetically the same there would still be a reduction in fitness due to interaction with domesticated salmon."

This is because farm salmon have been bred selectively to grow quickly. The ability to hunt at sea, jump waterfalls and locate a specific river aren't attributes fish farmers look for.
"It can be concluded that genetic changes leading to reduced survival in the wild is a feature of all domesticated salmon and consequently hybrids between farm and wild fish also have reduced survival," Ferguson said.

Richie Flynn, of the Irish Salmon Growers Association (ISGA), responded to the study by saying, "The industry will take note of the report in adhering to the strict protocols agreed by ISGA members to prevent farm escapes."
But, Flynn added, "It is hoped that those who manage river systems will also take note of the consequences of their actions in restocking those systems." Flynn refers here to another conclusion of the Burrishoole study - that deliberate stocking of young cultivated salmon to boost depleted wild populations is likely have the opposite effect to that intended.

While monitoring farm salmon parr in the river, Ferguson and his team found that these larger, more aggressive juveniles chased away 57 percent of native parr. Ferguson adds that deliberate stocking means large numbers of pure farm juveniles are introduced in the first generation, causing even lower overall survival than hybrid fish.

He added: "Some have argued that stocking does good by introducing new genetic variation. Our study and similar studies on salmonids in North America shows this to be completely false."
There are also those who thought farming of Atlantic salmon would help reduce pressure on overfished wild stocks. Now it seems the industry has set the species on a very different course, one that puts its very survival in doubt.


Cowlitzfisherman

Gawldarn! the lernin' never stops!

That explains why my older brother never got mad when I accidentally called him dad!

He never encouraged you to watch any gladiator movies, did he?

Now that you mention it h2o, I distinctly remember the day I found out that Eddie was actually short for Oedipus!

Now that's funny 4-Salt

Say WHAT??!!!?

Some of this drivel is so damn amusing I almost choke while laughing! Picture this....

"The small, clear pool in the center of the river is crowded with excited salmon nearing their spawning time. As Mother Natures clock ticks ever so closer to that crucial time in a Salmons lifecycle, there grows an ever increasing tension in the pool. What could be causing this tension, as all salmon in the pool were born there and fought their way through nets, seals, brids of prey, fisherman, and the violent forces of their home river itself?
Ever more frantic, the salmon race back and forth, back and forth across the now churning pool! Please, tell me what is wrong my salmon friends! Aha! No sooner than thinking this, the answer comes to me by way of telepathy with my cousins in nature.... They have suddenly realized that they were all born in the same water that generations of their kin were also born in. For eons the same blood has been born, died, and was re-born in this very pool. "How can we do this, is this not incest, as I know not who my brother and sister are?".... And thus was the end of our dear salmon, as they could not breed since they were all related......


Sorry folks...... got a little carried away there...

MC

Not you eddie!