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#220340 - 11/25/03 08:16 PM Tribal Enforcment on Wasting Fish
Dave Vedder Offline
Reverend Tarpones

Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 8379
Loc: West Duvall
Chico boat launch.

Christopher Dunagan
Sun Staff

November 25, 2003
A Suquamish tribal fisherman is in legal trouble with his tribe after violating a series of fishing rules last week at Chico Creek, according to tribal officials.

The man and possibly two others are expected to be charged with fishing in closed waters and with wasting fish by allowing salmon carcasses to rot on the beach, said Rob Purser, Suquamish fisheries director.

Some people already find it distasteful that tribal fishermen are allowed to take eggs from chum salmon and throw the carcasses overboard, but cleaning fish at the Chico boat launch and dumping the carcasses on the beach clearly crossed the line, Purser said.

The fisheries director was not specific about who would be charged in last week's incident.

On Monday morning, a boat half filled with rotting chum was still resting on the boat ramp, where it was left last week. Other fish were scattered down the beach.

The boat's owner, Mike Belmont, said he had loaned his boat to a younger tribal member.

"He's going to get a ticket," Belmont said. "He knows that."

According to Belmont, the younger man left the boat on the boat launch without cleaning up the mess when he got into an argument with a relative. A Kitsap County sheriff's deputy later escorted him away.

Tribal Police Officer Michael Stewart said he picked up some of the fish and put them into the boat when nobody else came to do it.

Another tribal fisherman, David Sigo, expressed outrage that a few violators could create problems for the quiet Chico neighborhood.

"I told those guys that they'd better clean this up," Sigo said Monday. "They are making us all look bad."

Although denying responsibility, Belmont returned Monday to remove the dead fish and continue fishing in Chico Bay.

Discarding chum carcasses after removing the eggs has been raising the ire of area residents and sport fishermen since fishing began two weeks ago.

"It's an awful waste of fish," said Virgil Ruiz, a Marine Drive resident who enjoys fishing with young people at the mouth of Chico Creek.

"If they caught them and kept them, that would be one thing," he said, "but they are just slaughtering them and taking the roe."

The Suquamish Tribe began allowing the harvest of eggs several years ago when the price of chum dropped so low that small-scale fishermen could not afford to harvest the whole fish, Purser said.

Chico Creek has surpassed its need for 20,000 chum spawners, he said, so the remaining fish are excess.

Tribal fishing off Chico Creek is in its third week of two- or three-day openings.

Between four and six boats have been taking advantage of the recent openings to sell eggs as caviar in Asian markets.

"The value is in the eggs," Purser said. "The stream is at capacity, so more fish in the stream won't produce more fish for the system."

Extra salmon that make it upstream will feed the bears, he said, but salmon left in Dyes Inlet will feed crabs and other marine life -- and give tribal members some income.

Under federal court interpretations of Indian treaties, tribes are entitled to half the allowable harvest of salmon.

So far this fall, non-Indian fishermen have taken about 275,000 fish in the South Puget Sound region, including those coming back to Chico Creek, said tribal biologist Jay Zischke. Tribal fishermen from all tribes combined have taken less than half that many.

Tribes farther south in Puget Sound will continue to fish after state-sanctioned fishing is closed, he said, but it is unlikely that the tribal harvests will catch up to the non-tribal catch.

Purser said the fishermen responsible for last week's violations have charges pending from previous incidents. As a result, he intends to recommend to the Suquamish Tribal Council that fishing privileges be suspended the rest of the year for one or more of those involved.

"The neighbors should not have to be smelling that, and it creates inconvenience for people living along the beach," he said. "There is no reason to leave fish on the beach."

Purser said anyone who experiences problems with tribal fishermen can call him at (360) 394-8436.

Reach Christopher Dunagan at (360) 792-9207 or at cdunagan@thesunlink.com.
_________________________
No huevos no pollo.

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#220341 - 11/25/03 08:30 PM Re: Tribal Enforcment on Wasting Fish
NWflyfisher Offline
Fry

Registered: 01/04/01
Posts: 20
Loc: Puget Sound
"...Purser said the fishermen responsible for last week's violations have charges pending from previous incidents. As a result, he intends to recommend to the Suquamish Tribal Council that fishing privileges be suspended the rest of the year for one or more of those involved..."

Wow! Talk about punishment!!! He won't be able to fish again for 35 days. How about he won't be able to fish again for 5 years?

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#220342 - 11/25/03 08:40 PM Re: Tribal Enforcment on Wasting Fish
havnfun Offline
Spawner

Registered: 07/04/99
Posts: 727
Loc: tacomca,wa,pierce
they stated that the nontribal sporties have caught 275K fish and that tribal not near that number can u say** the tribe hit hoodsport like ther was no tomorrow five days aweek!sure they got more than thier 1/2 of that run!
_________________________
love tne smell of fish blood in the morning

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#220344 - 11/25/03 09:00 PM Re: Tribal Enforcment on Wasting Fish
goharley Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 3188
Loc: U.S. Army
Un-flippin'-believable!! Such outlandish and blatant disregard for, not only the law and the environment, but the local population as well.

That smacks with, "What are you gonna do, restrict me from fishing for a few days? Yeah, right."

What ever happened to that law about not selling the roe without the carcass? That law was supposed to stop this kind of action. Was it not enacted or is it not being enforced?
_________________________
Tent makers for Christie, 2016.

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#220345 - 11/25/03 09:16 PM Re: Tribal Enforcment on Wasting Fish
grandpa2 Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 1698
Loc: Brier, Washington
harley...remember that when it is convenient the tribes are a sovereign nation so your laws do not apply...when it is convenient they are US citizens....If only they would not flaunt it so bad we might get along...The wastage laws obviously do not apply to the tribes unless the tribes want to enforce it. WDFW cannot or will not. The enforcement by the tribes is highly symbolic at best. Make it illegal to sell roe and enforce a law that let's the tribes sell on tribal land and not to Asia...fat chance of that happening in this chicken **** state.
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#220346 - 11/25/03 10:51 PM Re: Tribal Enforcment on Wasting Fish
Bustinbig Offline
Spawner

Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 491
Loc: silverdale
i just read the same article tonight when i got home. what a buch of ^%$^&^.i have to agree with granpa2.but what can you do????

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#220347 - 11/25/03 11:36 PM Re: Tribal Enforcment on Wasting Fish
ROCKFISH Offline
Spawner

Registered: 12/03/01
Posts: 851
Loc: manchester,Wa
I'm glad they got busted, Mikes my buddys uncle and one of my good buddies takes there fish in, they were the ones setting there nets inside the boundarys at gorst creek and fishing on non fishing days, other netters were getting hardly anything and Mike and his younger relative had there nets so full on a couple of occasions they sank, last year Mikes nets got cut at night fishing chico creek and he went diving for the anchors or whatever and coralled a 18 lb steelhead into one of his cut nets, my buddy took it in and heard the whole story, hes also a suspected geoduck/dungeoness night diver but I wont go there, I hope they take his license away.
_________________________
THE FISH MUST DIE

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#220348 - 11/25/03 11:52 PM Re: Tribal Enforcment on Wasting Fish
stlhdfishn Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 12/29/02
Posts: 293
Loc: kitsap peninsula
Sooner or later it will catch up to them. My feelings are it will never be soon enough though. beathead

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#220349 - 11/26/03 03:09 AM Re: Tribal Enforcment on Wasting Fish
cupo Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 1041
Loc: north sound
"So far this fall, non-Indian fishermen have taken about 275,000 fish in the South Puget Sound region, including those coming back to Chico Creek, said tribal biologist Jay Zischke. Tribal fishermen from all tribes combined have taken less than half that many."

And we can be sure that the tribes keep accurate catch records, right? Just how do they keep track when they are only keeping eggs and tossing the carcasses and males overboard?

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#220350 - 11/26/03 05:41 AM Re: Tribal Enforcment on Wasting Fish
micropterus101 Offline
Spawner

Registered: 01/03/03
Posts: 802
Loc: Port Orchard
Quote:
So far this fall, non-Indian fishermen have taken about 275,000 fish in the South Puget Sound region, including those coming back to Chico Creek, said tribal biologist Jay Zischke. Tribal fishermen from all tribes combined have taken less than half that many.
Guess the commercials had a great season this year in area ten which was closed to sports fishermen all season except for silvers.
I know damn well we didnt even come close to 40,000 this year in the south sound. As far as state tribes not getting there half B.S they have been netting every damn day since the salmon came in. Silvers Kings and Chums!

Aunty who payed you off? beathead

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#220351 - 11/26/03 05:44 AM Re: Tribal Enforcment on Wasting Fish
micropterus101 Offline
Spawner

Registered: 01/03/03
Posts: 802
Loc: Port Orchard
P.S you should have seen all the kings they dumped at the bremerton launch this year! Evidently the roe market is not exclusive to chums
mad

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#220352 - 11/26/03 06:54 AM Re: Tribal Enforcment on Wasting Fish
grandpa2 Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 1698
Loc: Brier, Washington
The other part to this is that federal dollars help support hatcheries which, in some cases, exist to produce Chums so the tribes can harvest the eggs. In the process of netting all these chums there are incidental catches of Coho and blackmouth. I know the salmon enhancement program is not what it used to be but I would say the blackmouth in Puget Sound this time of year are much more scarce than they should be. Area 10 tribal netting is repsonsible for a good chunk of those fish being lost to the sportsmen who have been paying to raise them for many years through $10 added to the license fee. What did the tribes contribute? as usual ZERO. Do they hold the resource in some sacred esteem? NO
Just look at the scenario mentioned above. Waste and disrespect are the two descriptions of the tribes attitude towards salmon. The established tribal members may not care much for fishing anymore but the younger ones see the stripping of eggs as an easy buck...leave their crap all over for someone else to clean up..then go get yourself a couple of jugs and start the party.
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#220353 - 11/26/03 12:53 PM Re: Tribal Enforcment on Wasting Fish
barnettm Offline
Spawner

Registered: 07/12/02
Posts: 614
Loc: Maple Valley, Wa.
The only legislator with enough guts to take on the Indian issue was Slade Gorton, and the Seattle liberals threw him out and replaced him with Ms. Patty Murray.

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#220354 - 11/26/03 01:01 PM Re: Tribal Enforcment on Wasting Fish
4Salt Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/07/00
Posts: 2955
Loc: Lynnwood, WA
Yup! Ol' Slade got REAL far with the tribal fishing rights lawsuits didn't he... wink
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A day late and a dollar short...

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#220355 - 11/26/03 02:35 PM Re: Tribal Enforcment on Wasting Fish
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13533
Of course there's no excuse, but, as usual, there are reasons. This being the day before Thanksgiving, perhaps I'm fated to play the apologist.

As long as treaty tribes are responsible for enforcing their fishing regulations, this is what we can expect for the foreseeable future. If I was a young treaty Indian, roe fishing would look like a pretty good opportunity for fairly easy cash. If I were a treaty Indian, the odds are overwhelming that my family would be highly disfunctional. If I were a young treaty Indian most likely, either I, or members of my family, would use drugs and or be alchoholic. If I were a treaty Indian, more likely than not I would have dropped out of high school. My future education and employment prospects would look pretty bleak. Hell, the odds of living a "normal" life would look pretty bleak. And the odds of living to a ripe old age would, statistically, be lower than average.

Fishing for roe isn't all that hard, as fishing as work goes. Keep the roe, and discard the carcasses, get quick cash, for booze, for drugs, maybe for groceries. As for discarding carcasses at public boat launches and on beaches in front of citizens homes - well, I'd have to care about myself first, before I could comprehend caring about what others think of my behavior.

Indians are treated as a racial minority in US society. In a lot of cases, perhaps on balance, they are treated as second class citizens - altho that hardly seems the case here, where their superior fishing rights are more or less continuously paraded. As long as Indians are treated as a racial minority, and as long as Indians perceive themselves as being treated as second class citizens, I expect that the social disfunction, lack of education, lack of quality employment prospects, drug and alchohol abuse, and irresponsible fishing will continue.

BTW, it is legal for treaty Indians to harvest roe and discard salmon carcasses. Obviously, how and where they're discarded has a large effect on opinions regarding the practice.

As sickening as the sight of wasted fish is, it doesn't bother me nearly as much as when I've seen a bunch of little Indian kids, uncared for, growing up on a reservation to be the next generation of disfunctional members of our society.

A small disclaimer: I know that not all Indians and their families are disfunctional, but we both know that much of what I've discribed above is highly pervasive in Indian culture and society. If life is better than this for you, be thankful.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

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#220356 - 11/26/03 02:54 PM Re: Tribal Enforcment on Wasting Fish
barnettm Offline
Spawner

Registered: 07/12/02
Posts: 614
Loc: Maple Valley, Wa.
A prisoner who is let out after 15 years is actually quite afraid of re-entering society even though prison life sucks. His life sucks but he is used to it and the unknown causes fear. To me it is the same with the Indian reservation system. It sucks but the people do not know any better and would be fearful of any change. Add to this a few fat cats (who make mucho bucks off the present system) and you have our reservation system of today.

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#220357 - 11/26/03 03:01 PM Re: Tribal Enforcment on Wasting Fish
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Salmo g.:

A small disclaimer: I know that not all Indians and their families are disfunctional, but we both know that much of what I've discribed above is highly pervasive in Indian culture and society. If life is better than this for you, be thankful.

You paint a pretty bleak picture of what its like to be an indian...

I did a little reasearch to find out what the actual population percentage that are drug abusers and came up with a depressing document on the issue... the numbers are staggering...

link to article

The issues that have to do with indians and fishing are just the tip of the iceberg here. There are bigger problems with the quality of life that may never be solved in our lifetime. Especially as long as they are treated as a separate nation.

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#220358 - 11/26/03 10:08 PM Re: Tribal Enforcment on Wasting Fish
Wooly Bully Offline
Spawner

Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 508
Loc: NE Seattle
What pie eyed said. These racist, unconstitutional treaties are the root of many problems. I look forward to the day that the court system will uphold the concepts that "all men are created equal" and that all contracts must have an end date to be valid. I wonder what the courts would do to me if I had committed that crime.
_________________________
The drift is always greener on the other side.

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#220359 - 11/27/03 02:30 AM Re: Tribal Enforcment on Wasting Fish
cupo Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 1041
Loc: north sound
Most of these poor, unfortunate tribal members have less than 50% native blood anyway. It gets less and less every year.

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#220360 - 11/27/03 08:53 AM Re: Tribal Enforcment on Wasting Fish
ltlCLEO Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 1104
Loc: brownsville wa.
Salmo,
Took a road trip yesterday which ended up on the norht fork.

Met two young indian men fishing.when they first come down I was aprehensive to say the least.I was expecting alaskan grey flies.

Instead these two young men were using noodles,eight lb test and......................LTLCLEO'S.........................with barbless hooks.c/r with more ethics then I have seen from any white man down there at the snagfest on the canal.He had alot to say about the n fork.

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