My fishing partner picked up a bright 12# hatchery hen and when he cleaned her he called and said there was no eggs in her just empty skeins? Does anyone have any thoughts or and explanation. I have not seen that before. Thanks for the input.

Doubletake

Your post fits your name! (j/k) It's actually not uncommon at all to catch a spawned out bright fish. Or maybe Rich took 'em.

I've always called that a mended fish. Alot of late season winter fish on the way down have that flabby belly, and can be super bright. (Hens)

downriver fish is another term for that...

Spawned out and headed down river....

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The little one is help ing me type

a younm,ge fisherman in the making...

this is too funny trying to keep his hands off the keyboard and type at the same time... klkg

i caught beautiful chrome hatchery hen on eagle creek last week. When i cut it open started to drop loose eggs, inside was nasty. Impossible to tell wasn't winter fish as far as I can tell. Any1 know to differentiate?

It was a late summer run.

Maybe.
What's the name of that parasite that steelhead, especially summerruns get in their throat?

I KNEW THAT!!! LOL, I just didn't think about it being spawned out and headed downstream . Thanks for the input, I do believe, now that it has come up again, that I read that in other posts a while back. Thanks again guys, I love this board . Take care all.

Doubletake

Last year on the Lyre from November to the middle of January I caught around 20 female steelies and all but 2 of them had this same deal going, they would either drop the eggs when I cut them open or would have no eggs at all. These fish were all bright fish, I was really puzzled myself, but shrugged it off as no big deal, strange that is all I can say. Other fish from different rivers were'nt like this either.

I've found that the hens will stay pretty much chrome bright till the day they die, but the bucks darkin up a lot quicker...

Hey there! Another question concerning this fish. My partner called me back last night and said they baked the tail piece of the steelie and that it turned out very mushy and tasted bad (real fishy). Is this typical as well for a downstream steelie? He is going to try smoking what is left, any thoughts would help.
If this is typical of "mended" fish, seems it would be more appropriate to release them. We love catching and eating, if they are not good for eating will release from now on.

Thanks for the input gentlemen.

Doubletake

I never have kept a downriver fish because I heard they were just like you described.

yes I would say that is typical.

Down stream spawned out steelhead are called "kelts"

Here is some information on kelts from the Columbia River system;

Repeat spawning is a life history strategy that is expressed by some species from the family salmonidae. Natural rates of repeat spawning for Columbia River steelhead Oncorhynchus mykiss populations range from 1.6 to 17%. Increasing this repeat spawning rate using fish culture techniques could assist the recovery of depressed steelhead populations. Reconditioning is the process of culturing post-spawned fish (kelts) in a captive environment until they are able to grow and develop mature gonads. Kelt reconditioning techniques were initially developed for Atlantic salmon Salmo salar and sea-trout S. trutta. The recent Endangered Species Act listing of many Columbia Basin steelhead populations has prompted interest in developing reconditioning methods for local populations. The primary purpose of this project in 2000 was to test the general feasibility of collecting, feeding, and treating steelhead kelts in a captive environment. Steelhead kelts were collected from the Yakima River at the Chandler Juvenile Evaluation Facility (Rkm 48) from 12 March to 13 June 2000. Kelts were reconditioned at adjacent Prosser Hatchery in both rectangular and circular tanks and fed a mixed diet of starter paste, adult sized trout pellets, and freeze-dried krill. Formalin was used to control outbreaks of fungus, and we tested the use of ivermectin to control internal parasites (e.g., Salmincola spp.). Some the kelts that died during the reconditioning process were analyzed via pathology and gonad histology to ascertain the possible cause of death and to describe their reproductive development at the time of death. All surviving specimens were released for natural spawning on 12 December 2000. Overall success of the reconditioning process was based on the proportion of fish that survived captivity, gained weight, and on the number of fish that successfully underwent gonadal recrudescence. Many of the reconditioned kelts were radio tagged to assess their spawning migration behavior and success following release from Prosser Hatchery. In total, 512 kelts were collected for reconditioning at Prosser Hatchery. Captive specimens represented 37% (512/1,380) of the entire 1999-2000 Yakima River wild steelhead population, based on fish ladder counts at Prosser Dam. At the conclusion of the experiments ({approx}240 days from capture), 91 fish (18%) had survived and were released to spawn in the wild. Ultrasound examination--to determine sex and reproductive development--determined that 87 (96%) of 91 specimens were female, and we estimated 62 fish (12% of the total collected) had successfully reconditioned. Unfortunately, the majority (82%) of the kelts collected died during the experiment, with the bulk of the moralities occurring during the first 100 days of captivity. Much was learned from the mortalities and modifications were made to the facility to reduce loss for future projects. Overall, the kelts reconditioned during this project will substantially bolster the number of repeat spawners in the Yakima River. Knowledge regarding kelt husbandry, food type preferences, condition, and rearing environments were obtained during this research endeavor. Although the reconditioning success rate achieved (estimated at 12%) was substantially lower than we initially hoped yet still six times higher than the natural rate of respawning and the authors are encouraged by the results of this innovative project. Information collected during this feasibility study will be incorporated into the experimental design for the upcoming year of research and is expected to increase survival.

Cowlitzfisherman

Egads, CFM.....that post could have made a new topic. Interesting stuff. I would be interested to know if the offspring would be considered wild....since they were human assissted.....something doesn't ring right with this. Was it not "wild" fish that were endangered? hmmmm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Doubletake:
[QB]
If this is typical of "mended" fish, seems it would be more appropriate to release them. We love catching and eating, if they are not good for eating will release from now on.

I couldn't tell you from recent experience. Don't keep steelhead anymore, but I think the last one I tried was fine, firm and tasted like steelhead. I'm not a huge fan of eating them in the first place, prefer chinook, or white fleshed fish. No help here I guess.

doubletake....
If there is one way that is most likely to produce fishy tasting fish it's baking it. Spawner hens are notorious for being poor eating. This is true of both steelhead and salmon. Their meat pales out so bad that it looks like chum and takes alot like cardboard. They can be smoked and are satisfactory, but really they are hardly worth the effort. You can broil em and bbq em and if you add enough junk, they are edible.

No wild fish advocates want them released, but I doubt many are willing to take them home, either. (probably going to catch hell for that one......

Thanks again guys for all the input.

Now if you see a sled full of guys arguing over releasing their hatchery fish , bright fish but possible skinny enough to be spawned out ......that will be me. LOL ! My partner is smoking what is left of the hen, if it turns out good, that will answer that argument.

Take care all, good fishing and Happy New Year

Doubletake

Hachery steelies come in and spawn quickly. Most steelies this time of year that are spawned are winters not summers. Summers will not spawn til Feb. Summers will have color but will be fat and full of eggs. Look at the belly, if it's skinny its spent. They may look bright but if they don't fifht hard and jump lots they may be spent. Also remember spawners are good bait biters in deep slow holes.

Took a kid steelheading for his first time the day before yesterday. The first fish he landed was a winter brat hen that was spilling eggs and was already half empty. Next day we released what appeared to be a summer run kelt that was in spent condition on the Wah-wah. All this turned out to be a very educational experience for him. (By the way, thanks Tom M., Nathan, Chris, and Cory (?) for taking the time and interest to make it a successful and memorable trip for the young man. )
Although I have caught a number of kelts on rivers myself, primarily in the spring, I did catch a super chrome steelhead off Bainbridge Is. on the 4th of July many years ago that turned out to be a kelt. After eating it, I have never kept one since. It was like eating one of those alkili trout from Eastern Wash. Ptewie!

There is a tiny stream on the Oregon Coast called Cape Creek that is open for steelhead. Years ago a freind and I were fishing the first pool above tidewater the first week of December. He catches a 6 pound hen, chrome bright, not a mark on her, and still with sea lice, and bonks it. When he cut it open it was spawned out There are no summer runs in this crick and probably only about a mile of spawnable water, so that fish must have come in ripe and let go immediately, and for that to happen that early in the season - well, we never expected it for sure.

I release spawnouts, hatchery or not, and actually release any steelhead that is a bit dark as I surely don't need to smoke dark fish when my freezer is still plugged with all the chrome salmon I smoked up August through October. The one thing that gives away a spawned out hen, no matter how bright, is that the ovipositor is extruded. You can see that when they lay over on their sides after being played out.

Lotsa early spawnouts this year, with all the early rain and correspondingly early return. Last couple I got down in my little Southwest corner of Washington were spawnouts. Think I'll go blackmouth fishing tomorrow