Ok while not Political correct the Oploco thread got me thinking (by the way I am all for C/R nates but do like my pics) So back to the topic How far up should one fish before worrying about the fish spawning and should not be caught off the redds. I caught a nice fish on saturday that hit like no other steelhead I have ever caught. I tossed a pink worm out by a log in a bend of a river that I know has a gravel bottom, before the worm was an inch under the water the fish came up and just trashed the worm, It came as such a supprise I almost missed the hook-set. I mentioned it to a friend at a tackle store and he said "its getting that time of year" which I didnt pay attention to until I read oplocals thread. Im I fishing to high on the river and getting aggresive spawning fish or do they just get more aggresive when the water warms a bit.

PS... I well stop fishing so high if Im guilty, no need to pass any new laws or anything.

Steelhead spawn in rivers from just upstream of tidewater to well toward the headwaters and in accessible reaches of tributary streams, large and small.

Back before steelhead managers knew all that much about steelhead life history and freshwater distribution, they often opened the lower portions of rivers to fishing, while keeping the upper portions closed. The hypothesis was that the steelhead run would be exposed to angling pressure for only the short time required to migrate through the lower river.

Unfortunately, that kind of management led to low fishing pressure on fish that rapidly migrated to the upper river and tributaries. However, the fish in the lower river, or bound for lower river tributaries (they usually hold in the river and migrate into small tributaries just before actually spawning) were exposed to fishing pressure from the time they entered the river until after they spawned and moved back downstream. The result could be under-fishing part of the population and severely over-fishing the lower river fish.

If you want to even the fishing pressure out on all parts of a steelhead population, I think you would have to limit the fishing just to the tidally affected reach. And that is the worst place for a CNR fishery. Those mint bright fish with the loose scales are the ones most subject to damage from handling. Scale loss leads to disease that leads to mortality. The exceptions are those steelhead that enter freshwater already colored up slightly. Their scales have "hardened" and become more firmly embedded. Steelhead and salmon that have colored up are much more resistant to rough handling. They also have a more developed protective slime layer, as well.

As for aggression and the likelihood of hitting your lure, sexual maturity plays a role, but I've only seen that in fish actually on spawning redds. They are very defensive and strike at pretty much anything. I found a large female chinook that had eaten a 5 inch fingerling once while doing spawning surveys.

Off the spawning redds, I think water temperatures play a big role in fish aggression. We often think native steelhead hit better than the early running hatchery fish. The reason might be that March and April water temperatures are often more favorable than those of December and January. I've had some incredibly aggresive hits from November hatchery steelhead, and I wonder if the slightly warmer water had anything to do with that.

The notion that fishing lower rivers is more conservation oriented than fishing upper rivers for steelhead is bunk. Managing overall mortality is the key to successful steelhead population management. Within the range of allowable mortality for a given population, it doesn't matter where in the river system - or the ocean for that matter - it occurs, and it doesn't matter what the cause, be it predation, flood, drought, hook and line, or gillnet. The dead fish don't spawn. Most of those that escape, do. That's the simple part of fish management.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

have had some of the hardest hits and softest hits flyfishing. no where near spawning redds to see the silver bullet come under your fly and just smash it like there is no tomorrow,yet other times just sip it down. each fish does it own thing.

Salmo, it seems that I always can count on you "when Im not ranting" but when I have a valid question you seem to hit the head on the nail and I thank you,,,,Havefun I also thank you it kida puts things in perspective...thanks again...dj

What Salmo G said.

Its easy to stay off of the reds and not catch fish that are staging. You just need to identify the area.

No question the later it gets the more encounters you are gonna have with post spawn fish (mostly Hens). These fish are feeding and very agressive and holding in water that food is likely to foat by.

I dont target post spawn fish and dont care much to catch them but if you fish after mid March your gonna see some no matter what you do. Which is OK.

How did I know that one was coming.

Hell of a post CFM.... things that make you go HMMM!

CFM:

Still kinda new here (in terms of years), and don't know who Salmo works for (that's his biz), BUT, I would wager his frustrations are equal to yours on this subject.

I don't disagree with your comment...nope, not one bit, but when it gets personal to Salmo I gotta wonder if your angry at him, or the agency that employ's him. Those are not the same thing.

From what I have seen here Salmo (and you too!) have spent many hours teaching and sharing your knowledge of steelhead. It is mucho appreciated.

Mis Dos Centavos,

Mike B

well said mike, I look for wisdom in both CLF and Salmo posts

Is salmo g. a bio or an administrative decision maker? Sounds like he is a bio. If so, he probably isn't someone who should take heat for bad fishery decisions?

Don't know what Salmo does but I would bet money on one thing.... he is probably a damn good fisherman, if the quality of his facts and information are any indicator.

[img]http://car-nutz.com/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=90[/img]

Well, whadaya' know? A guy goes to work, tends to some business, and all kinds of things can break out on PP BB.

CFM makes an exquisitely perfect point. When 2 out of every 3 fish caught in either these large mesh gillnets or smaller mesh tangle nets (and in a former life I've used both for research) has to be released because its ESA listed, why would you use gear that causes exactly the trauma (scale loss and slime removal) that leads to high mortality? And the spring chinook in the lower Columbia that I've seen are mint bright during this time period, and most of the steelhead are pretty bright, too, although probably less sensitive than the chinook. And tidally influenced water extends all the way up to Bonneville.

CFM seldom misses a beat, and he called this one dead on. If the objective is to protect ESA chinook and steelhead, the gillnet and tangle net fisheries are inconsistent with that purpose. Those harvestable hatchery spring chinook could be trapped for harvest by making modifications to the Bonneville fish ladder system and the Willamette Falls ladder system, fully protecting ESA listed wild spring chinook and steelhead.

However - isn't there always a however or something like that? - NMFS and WDFW have conflicting legislative mandates. One mandate is to protect fishery resources, and another is to manage for commercial and recreational and (for federal agencies) treaty Indian fisheries. Consequently, the fisheries management mandate in modern times becomes self-contradictory. And management decisions are based partly on biology and partly on policy - i.e. politics. And the politics of commercial fishing insist on maintaining the traditional lower Columbia River gillnet fishery whether it makes fisheries conservation sense or not - and as it turns out, it does not.

This is real life folks. It's complex and full of conflicting and competing issues. Nothing is sacred in this pluralistic society, assuring that compromises are made. No one gets things just his or her way. Even the presumably powerful ESA gets compromised.

I'm Salmo g., and that's the Salmo report!

great summation Salmo...and CFM. Isn't it funny that we all know the major culprits in fisheries decline but we must hold our noses to compromise? The dams have created a ton of compromises. The nets are like a turd in a punch bowl that no one dares remove.

Keep it coming Salmo g and CFM. You guys enlighten all of us!

I personally like the idea of trapping the tribal and nontribal gillnet allocation at each of the dams. These user groups have reduced the fish to nothing more than a commodity to be exploited for the meat alone. Let them form their own separate co-op's to staff their respective fish collection quota at each dam. Each can split the proceeds however they see fit.

Why invest in all that gear, gas, sweat and heartache chasing those fish when the fish will just come to them? Why maim the fish or allow unwanted by-catch to perish with miles of mesh? The traps could be 100% selective with negligible mortality for non-target species!

Salmo and CFM both have proposed a very viable alternative to Columbia river gillnet fisheries, both tribal and non tribal. However, I don't think that name calling, finger pointing and emotional posturing is going to get it done. Some form of negotiation process needs to be set in motion. It must be realized that recreational fishers will be asking commercial interests( tribal and non tribal) to make sacrifices. To have any expectation of settlement, sport fishers will also need to make sacrifices. As the single largest user group of salmon and steelhead stocks in the state we need to understand that we, as a group, have the greatest impact on these fish and may be required to sacrifice the most.

Slug, are you saying that sports have more impact than commercials and tribe nets combined? You must be either a commercial or a tribe member, or just flat wrong. As a sportie I've already given more than any other interest. Curious where you got your data from?

Nailknot,
Sorry about the confusion. The sport catch of salmon and steelhead combined for the state is greater than the commercial catch and ,of course less than the tribal catch. The commercial catch is predominately chum salmon.