Because I was unable to find that picture of the dead horse, I decided to start YET another thread regarding wild steelhead.

My question is (and I asked this in the past on The Board but I recieved a lackluster respsonse)...What are you going to do? What is your plan?

I see all these opponents of WSR which is great, you are entitled to your opinion. I also see those who will not support the WSC. Again, you are entitled to your opinion.

BUT, if you are going to attack WSR and attack the WSC, I would love to see what your involvement is in wild steelhead conservation/preservation. ...and sitting back and not fishing does not count. Nor does *****ing about the Indians.

The WSC is heavily involved in other issues pertaining to wild steelhead. There are also other organizations that spend countless hours and money helping to protect wild steelhead and/or their habitat.

There are also certain members on this board who spend countless hours on watershed committees. Homer2Handed nearly exhausts himself fighting for habitat and protection of the Stilliguamish basin.

I am not claiming to be the savior of wild steelhead but I am involved...why arent you?? Imagine if we put just half the effort we put forth *****ing on this board into wild steelhead issues. I think the fish would be much better off!

i`m going to buy you a set of golf clubs and send you a link to a golfing forum

I'm going to pitch in a few bucks on the golf clubs. and continue keeping an eye on you so that hopefully we don't get anymore stupid rules like your fish out the water rule.

"That's gonna leave a mark. "

The last three posts exemplify your point to a tee, Sparkey.

THEY HAVE NO PLAN!

Just the worn out Neanderthal attitude that if the tribes can kill 'em, then by golly, we sports ought to be able to kill 'em too.

Will the guy that bonks the last wild steelhead that finally puts these stocks into the irreversible spiral of death please turn out the lights? I really don't want to see that.

Reading most of the post on this BB and others
Not to many of us work on Habitat
Don’t you think this is a big ISSUE?
Better habitat, More FISH right?
Go to your local Watershed Meetings!
Most of the question would be answered right?
How do you know if you don’t ask?

Don’t answer my question with more for the nets.

Sitting back and not fishing doesn't count? Why not sparkey, because you wont make that sacrifice for a fish you supposedly care so much about? Are you saying that if people did voluntarily stop fishing for wild fish, it wouldn't help? Or are you saying it doesn't count because it doesn't suit your needs??

All along you and others have tried to make it look as if everyone who is against WSR decision is a rednecked fish bonker.... I obviously pose a problem to your belief system.

I also dont care for your in the water rule, its a waste of the paper it is printed on... completely unenforcable. Now I suppose you'll assume I drag my fish up the beach and have a 5 minute photo shoot... sorry to nip that one too, but I rarely take them out of the water even for a photo.

Nice stereotyping doc....

Are you still fishing for em too??

Hey Homer-
You still going to Sage tomorrow? Is you-know-who still giving the tour?

Is it too late for me to join you. If not, email me! I might have to wrestle myself out of bed early for this one!

Just like WSR is not the magic bullet, neither is hanging up your rods. If were to all hang up our rods, this downward spiral would still continue.

Like I mentioned in my post, if you do not support WSR fine, if you do not support the WSC fine but sitting around doing nothing and/or *****ing will not help matters.

fNp-
My point exactly!

Im not a Neanderthal... Im Neanderthal like....remember that


Heres the point...what if some one from the town next to yours came into your house and told you hey your cutting your grass east to west and his town cuts there grass north/south....and he just submitted a bill that it would be against the law to cut your grass from east to west. you wernt happy with the law in fact you were very comfortable cutting east to west and infact you always made sure that your grass continued to grow and gave it the care and attention that you would give something that you thought highly about.. (jeez I just mentioned grass and high in the same paragraph and wasnt talking about wacky weed) anyway this law passes and the guy who is now forcing you to do things HIS way just cant go golfing or buy new pumps at the mall he pops onto the grass growers web pages and trys to keep his name in the lime lite for what a great thing hes done.

and ask stupid questions like why doest anyone respond to my post etc...it because sparkey we dont like you....

back to the topic.... but its been pointed out
"Hey lets not make this a fly fisher against a bait fishermens war"....but heres the problem...(and yes I have a couple fly rods) there are people who get out fished with one lure or method (on both sides fly or convential) then instead of switching gear they would just like to see that method outlawed....well mandateing release techniques is a step towards the fringe getting a hand hold into way you conduct your own business. I do agree that some people needed to be educated on how to release fish I have seen the guys who just kick it back in etc....but education is the way to go not more laws.....how about I submit a law that outlawed flyfishing within any creek or river when there are conventional fishermen around or boats in the river. my argument would be that conventional fishermen and boaters going by are indanger of lossing an eye from the thrashing about of the flyfishermen (more movement = more chances) or better one let the fly fishermen fish but make every one else wear a helmet and goggles, yea thats much better...so does any one else see my point.....its education not laws that protect fish infact I dont think the poachers are worried about the way they land there fish....

now as far as a plan I have lession guides and instructor guides (and have posted there availibility here in the past) there are tons of youth programs out there that one can volunteer time to....I do 4H, boy/girls scouts teaches when ever they call.....teaching ethics is a big part of my program........


did you know Neanderthal men often stalked game around watering holes and would sneak up on things with nothing more then a rock or a stick.......DJ

sorry, there a law against that now

For the first time I am going to have to agree with a few of the things the anti WSR guys are saying. I am a fly guy when ever its the best option. I used to be a fly only guy. As I got older I started to realize that many serious fly fishermen do hold themselves above the average man. I'll give you an example. I used to be very active in T.U here in Idaho. The meetings were sort of stupid. They seemed really concerned about making a bunch of ponds in urban areas great fishing holes... like who cares about the management of hatchery trout in a pond down at the local city park.. what a waste of my time.

I do agree that wild stocks need protection from harvest. I don't agree that fly fisherman are the only people "worthy" of that cause. The fish out of water rule is way stupid. Idaho has a solid track record of taking care of wild fish ( no harvest, not by the tribes, not by sportsmen ) Can you take a fish out of the water ??? sure can.

So whats my point ??? I don't think fly fishermen are the reason that WSR is a fact now in Washington state. Its a lot bigger than that. Education is the answer to the proper release of any fish. WSR however is a different issue. Letting wild stocks go in the year 2004 is not something that should be an option in the current situation these fish face.

Just to be on record I support catch and release (wild fish) on rivers that have LOW runs...just dont tell me how to release my fish. the bans should include netting both tribe/commercials

So if we stop fishing for them the downward spiral would continue, but if we continue to fish but with WSR, it will help them? Please explain?

In an earlier thread you said the NEXT step is to close the rivers to protect them if WSR doesn't work. Doesn't that mean stop fishing for them....

Statements like these confirm that this hasn't been thought out very well.

I would vote for a strong hatchery program. In Eastern Wa. they have such a thing and people fish for steelhead from July @ Drano Lake through through January @ Ice Harbor Dam. What they do is follow the fish as they slowly make their way to the Dworsak National Fish Hatchery and other hatcheries on the Grande Rhonde and Salmon Rivers. Some hard-cores over there catch 150 or more steelhead a year. They have fun.

Sparkey.... better check all the sides of this argument. There's more than just two...

What did I ever do to you???

What's the old saying,

"Opinions are like A$$holes, everyone has one".

Why some of us seem hell bent on getting everyone to agree with our own opinion is beyond me. Like any other ideal, believe what you want, don't ask me to believe it too. Why do we keep resurrecting this??????????????

Zen Leecher - you are right - ask 10 fishermen and you will probably get 12 opinions. Here is the issue for me - please stay with me, I'm going to go pretty far afield but I will come back, I promise.

Fishing is one of the activities that confers upon the fisher "expert" status when we are good enough or lucky enough to catch the fish we were targeting when we were targeting it. What a lot of "experts" (including me) do not get is that just because you can catch a fish, it does not make you knowledgeable about habitat, hatchery interaction, effect of hydro, Wild Steelhead Release, etc. And I think that plays into the arguement we are having now.

Everyone on this board knows that I am in support of the WSR moratorium. I would like it to be permanent. I would like it to apply to all salmonids in our waters. I go out of my way to not fish rivers where the predominant fish is wild steelhead. I don't like the idea of having hooking mortality just to get my string stretched. Although I own a fly rod, I very rarely fly fish and have never thought about this issue as fly guys vs. gear chuckers. My point is this:

Steelhead in this state, both hatchery and wild, are having problems in returning sufficient numbers to reproduce themselves. It is a huge problem for Wild fish because the survival percentages from egg to smolt are so low. I do not believe that the hatchery practices currently in use provide an acceptable safety net in case the wild fish goes extinct. Therefore, every wild fish and the genetic cargo they carry is very valuable. We know that straying is a common occurence for steelhead. If we have to restart the wild fish population in the entire state from fish that grew up and returned to the Bogy for instance, we need to have that option available. Or we need to create hatcheries that preserve genetic diversity and offer the closest possible alternative to the wild fish. I don't think we are there yet, maybe others disagree.

WSR is the best option available for dealing with harvest while still allowing fishing opportunity. I think that it is clear that it is not the magic bullet. It is also clear that we have not found the magic bullet to get the tribes to stop harvesting the way they are currently harvesting. We have huge problems with Habitat. In some places, we have huge issues with Hydro. Only a coordinated approach to all of these factors will insure the survival of the wild steelhead. There are huge political, social, and cultural issues surrounding especially the Habitat and Hydro problems. They will not be solved overnight. My hope is that with WSR we will keep some wild fish around until we have found the will to attack the other, bigger problems.

This is all old ground folks, but if the Commission accepts Forks' petition, then we will go beyond the process of enacting the moratorium to discussing the validity of enacting a moratorium. I would hope that all sides could come to the table with the idea of preserving the wild steelhead as the most important and central point. If we as a sportfishing community can do that, then we will have the basis for common agreement and common actions. If not, we will fiddle while Rome burns. The distractions of us vs. them, fly vs. gear, Urban vs. Rural just strokes our egos (our expert egos?) and doesn't get us to where we need to be. And maybe we will decide that the wild fish is not worth the cost of saving. That would fill me with sadness and guilt at the legacy that I leave behind.

If you have got to this point, thanks for listening.