Anyone have a reliable (semi-reliable?) length/girth weight estimator for dollies?

They're considerably girthier than an average steelhead, so I don't know how well a steelhead estamator would work.

I caught one on the Hoh this weekend...29.5 length by 16.5 girth...biggest dolly I've ever caught.

The steelhead calculator puts it at 10.37 pounds...possible state record?

Anyone have any idea if a dolly's body shape would push that weight up or down...or would it be roughly the same?

No picture....my buddy left the digi in the truck. :rolleyes:

Fish on...

Todd

BULL TROUT!

Don't count!

My observations:

The stumpier the fish the smaller the divisor, the snakier the fish, the bigger the divisor.

Chinook: 740
Coho: 750
Steelhead: 775
Pike: 800+

I have seen Alaska dollies that ran the gammut from spent down-runners, to fresh streamlined ocean-bright up-runners, all the way to gluttonous pigs that have been in the river a while feasting on salmon eggs. I've seen some with the body proportions of a really fat king... ususally they will have a couple skeins of sockeye eggs in the belly.

Any of the divisors listed above would work for guesstimating the weight of a dolly (based on length times girth squared over some divisor) depending on time of year and condition of the fish. Just take your pick of which fish your Dolly looks most like.

My son caught one 34" long on the Skagit this winter... Looked for all the world like bright steelhead when he was five feet down. It hit the surface and I could, for a split second see very small white dots. We netted it and measured it but didn't get a girth. I estimated weight at about 13 lbs, then I found out the state record is somewhere around 10 lbs. ARGH.

At any rate some bio that visited the Fidalgo Fly Fishers group said there were no Dollies in the Skagit only three distinct variteies of Bull Trout... dunno.

Todd -
Nice fish - As FishNDoc points out the weight (condition) of our native char varies greatly depending on the time of year (recent spawn outs are very snaky while those that have been pigging out can be real footballs). I would say on the average they would be similar to steelhead though more rounder in shape but the girth measurement would pick that up.

On the Skagit system have seen 10# fish as short as 28 inches - winter of 2001/2002 when they had access to incredible numbers of humpy eggs as well as decaying chum carcesses. Have also seen 32 inch fish that would not weight 10# - just spawned. I would say typically a 30 incher would be about 10# give or take a pound or so though most anlgers tend to over-estimate their weight.

For those that may be interested the state record anadromous bull trout weighted 10.94 pounds and was 31.5 inchs long (Skagit system), the state record bull from Tieton river (and adfluvial fish) weight 22# 8oz and was 35 inches. the world record from lake Pend Oreille weighted 32# and was 40.5 inches long (another adfluvial fish which tend to be heavier at a given length).

TC -
Congrads to your son for a very nice fish - fish larger than the current anadromous record are caught annually out of the Skagit. The bio was correct in that the only true Dolly Varden found in Western Washington have been in small headwater tribs - place like Canyon Creek North Fork Nooksack, Sol Duc above Sol Duc and tirbs to the Skagit above Ross Lake. Genetic testing of the Skagit char downstream of the dams have all been bull trout. The 3 forms are just different life histories - resident fish - small fish that live their entire lives in headwater areas and rarely get to be more than 10 or 12 inches long and maturing at about 8 inches, fluvial fish that drop downstream and rear in the large main stem areas of larger rivers (upper Skagit) and mature at 15/16 inches long at age 4 though they can live to ages of 10 years or more and get quite large. Anadromous fish that drop downstream to Puget Sound at age 2 (6 inches) mature at age 4 and about 18 inches. There is also a 4 life history-adfluvial found in the resevoirs (Baker, Ross).

Tight lines
S malma

Same story with the Hoh fish according to the bio studying them....

Todd-

Was it this big??
[img]http://car-nutz.com/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=97[/img]
[img]http://car-nutz.com/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=98[/img]

Thanks for the replies, guys...

Eric, the fish I told you about on Saturday was a lot bigger than the one in your pic...it looked like a small springer right up until I brought it to hand.

It spit up about an eight inch flounder or sand dab, too, just as I was about to give it a grab.

This fish was nearly square it was so girthy...

Man...I wish we had a camera.

Smalma...so these are bull trout out on the OlyPen, too? I'm pretty sure all the fish we caught last weekend were anadromous fish, since we were only about 100 yards upstream from the breakers at the mouth of the Hoh.

Fish on...

Todd

Todd-

I talked pretty extensively with Sam Brinkman when he gave a presentation at ONP headquarters in January or February.

Knowing exactly where you caught that fish makes it more difficult to say with a high degree of certainty exactly which type, estuarial, anadromous etc....that fish is.

Since there are no adfluvial bull trout in the Hoh, judging by its size, I'd say it was anadromous.

PS for reference purposes, dude in the pics is 6' 4....

Todd -
As a recall all the char in the Hoh are bull trout.

Given the fish spit up a flounder I would anadromous. Brinkman's radio tagging found most of the fish leaving the Hoh for a portion of the late winter and spirng. Obviously the fish are feeding in the estuary area as well.

The size of a fish alone is not a determinate factor in the life history (anadromous, fluvial or adfluvial) of the fish; have seen all 3 forms exceed 10#. Since there are no large lakes in the anadromous reach of the Hoh we can rule the adfluvial form; the fluvial forms are typcially found associated with very large/deep pools (think that type of habitat in the Hoh is limited) so would expect the majority of the fish to be anadromous.

Our native char have a reputation as poor fighters - how could you confuse one for a chinook?

Tight lines

S malma

Oh, come on Smalma, the char are not THAT poor of fighters, they just don't jump. They'll "moon" you a few times though. I realize that you probably will never see a char do a full Monte double back full gainer (sp?) then sprint and climb a bank and then roll back down with leaves covering their back into the river like some hot wild hen steelhead would do. That being said, a 10# buck chinook vs 10# char on a 6wt/1141 could be comparable.

Beezer

Smalma wrote:

“Our native char have a reputation as poor fighters - how could you confuse one for a chinook?”

Smalma it was Todd!

My feeling is that the bad rep might come from people catching them on steelhead and salmon gear.

A ten pound anadromous Bully, in the first couple holes on the river is gonna be pretty spunky.

Smalma-
The reason I believe Bull Trout/Dollies have such a poor reputation regarding their fighting qualities, is that the vast majority of Char caught by fishermen tend to be in the late Fall/Winter when the fish are post-spawn.

I have been lucky enough to run into decent sized Bull Trout in the late Summer that fought very well. They weren't as charismatic as a steelhead but put up a good tussle...on steelhead tackle.

Sparkey may be onto something. Those post spawners sure are hungry, but many don't have a lot of fight. Similar to spawnout steelies.

One of my biggest Dollys was landed about this time three years ago. Just shy of 30", it was hooked in the lower Sky and fought considerably better than the hatchery steelhead my friend had just played.

Unlike most of the winter/early spring fish I see, this fish also had considerable girth. And not nearly as bright - it looked more like a brown trout.