WOW, the Kasilof has got to be plugged with reds right now! I saw 36K swim by the sonar counter yesterday... must have been a slayfest for anyone fortunate enough to have been flipping for sockeye from the bank! Did you get any video footage you could share with the board?

Great to hear! My dad's flight leaves for Anchorage in 11 minutes. 2 days on the Kasilof for Kings and another 4 days for sockeye and maybe some hali. He thinks their guide is from Eugene so I'm sure he'll ruffle some duck feathers while sporting the true colors.

Just got in from the river ... the first part of tide continued the incredible push of reds that we've seen over the last 36 hours.

In ten years, I've never seen a push of reds like this in the Kasilof.

Unfortunately, because of this, it's also the first time I can remember them openeing the actual river mouth to an all-out fishery to try to intercept them. The stoppage of the flow was evident right at high tide. They had been flipping for hours non-stop and then all of sudden it was over.

Actually b ad news for your dad BC as they're now going to net non-stop as they have "too many" reds in the river and with no management plan in place for the kings, they will take as many reds as possible without any regard for the king impact.

Sadly the great king fishing we've had the last two days as the main ball of fish finally hit the river will end ... we were playing C&R today and we probably hooked somewhere in the neighborhood of 25-30 fish to about 35-38 pounds. I'll bet we do perhaps a quarter of that on tomorrow's tide.

I did try to shoot a little video late in the push, I'm going to download it on my machine to see if we have red flow shots that turned out ... if so, I'll try to upload some tonight

Seems the good things in life never last too long. Bob is right. The nets went back in at 7 pm tonight for 12 hours by emergency order, and they will fish thru tomorrow's regular 12 hour 7am-7pm opener. So at least 24 more hours... and most likely netting all thru the weekend since they already fulfilled their 48 hour net-free window for the week.

Seems the Kasilof return is continuing at a very strong pace. The maxed-out netting is being justified to prevent overescapement into the Kasilof River. Unfortunately, non-target Kasilof and Kenai kings suffer the most , with record numbers already intercepted by the nets so far... and many more before the season is over.

The irony of it all is that 100,000 fish (very good source... we shall see on the counts posted tomorrow) entered the Kasilof today, and that is seen by the commfish division as "failed management" because they will exceed the biologic escapement goal by season's end. The management is so one-sided that it is beyond belief.

The only saving grace for this whole situation is if the Kenai sockeye return falls flat on its face. They need to allow at least 750,000 reds into the Kenai.... if it looks like they are falling short, the netting WILL BE curtailed.

Situations like this will recur season after season until the non-selective gillnets are eliminated from the commercial fishery. Seines and traps make the most sense for the management of this mixed stock fishery. Commercial harvest MUST be conducted in a selective manner that ensures non-target stocks are captured alive and released unharmed! Until then, the incessant commfish/sportfish allocative battles will rage on.

fNp ... you might have missed the earlier EO that I was referring to. Much different than a regular EO:

Kasilof Terminal Area Opening
Districts Affected: Kasilof Section Drift, Kasilof Section Set

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE July 14, 2004 02:00 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Emergency Order Number 2S-16-04 opens set and drift gillnetting in the Kasilof River Special Harvest Area from 3:00 p.m. until 6:00 p.m. on Wednesday July 14. The terminal area boundaries are 600 feet south of the normal commercial regulatory marker located one mile north of the Kasilof River to 600 feet north of the normal commercial regulatory marker located one mile south of the Kasilof River. The first 600 feet from the mean high tide mark is open to set gillnets only and the area outside of 600 feet is open to drift gillnets only. The offshore limit of this area is 1.5 miles from the navigational light located on the south bank of the Kasilof River but not closer than 600 feet of the set gillnet buoys in the normally open set gillnet area. This is approximately the area fished during the Kasilof Personal Use Gillnet fishery that operates from June 15 to June 25. Specifics of this plan are on page 102 of the current regulation book.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Release Date for this Anouncement is: July 14, 2004 02:00 PM


As I mentioned, I don't ever remember this specific fishery ever being implemented.

Since the commercials went directly to their next regular EO immediately after this, we may never know the exact take in such a fishery as their catch did not come to the dock immediately from it.

fNp

Do you really wish that the red run in in the Kenai is a failure just so there will be more fish available to recreational anglers in the Kasilof?The words greed, thoughtless and stupid come to mind.
Traps are illegal in Alaska.
No salmon are released alive from a seine in Alaska.
Alaska has done a wonderful job of managing their salmon runs. Do you think for even an instant that you could improve on that success.
The restricted, terminal area gillnet fishery that was opened is as selective as it gets.
I suggest that you involve yourself with restoring the unhealthy salmon runs in your own area and allow Alaska to manage their healthy salmon stocks without your ill conceived stratagies.

Hey slug

Before you go spouting off any more personal attacks, you should try educating yourself about this issue. The ignorance displayed in your post leaves the rest of your comments without any credibilty. That is not meant to be a slam against your intelligence... you may well have an IQ in the stratosphere.... but you obviously have no idea what is going on with the mismanagement of this mixed stock fishery.

In the interest of educating you and the rest of this board on the issue, check out page 3 of a thread on AOJ discussing the perils of managing the Kasilof system entirely for one species to the complete and utter exclusion of all other species, including those of the neighboring Kenai system just a few miles north:

Kasilof sockeye glut

And yes, traps are currently illegal, but that can be changed. Cook Inlet was fished very successfully with traps in the Territorial days.... they were just mismanaged. With current technology and understanding of the fishery, they would make an excellent replacement for the completely NONSELECTIVE set gillnet fishery.

Purse seines, as currently used in Alaska, do not involve live-sorting of the catch. That too, can be changed. Instead of hauling the entire purse aboard in one fish-crushing swoop, it can be left in the water and serve as a temporary net-pen to corral the fish into a tight cluster that can then be dipped out a few fish at a time, allowing the unharmed release of all non-target kings and coho! A perfect example of one simple lesson that the comm-fishers could learn from the the fish -farming industry that is crippling them economically. This type of purse-seining would make an excellent replacement for the completely NONSELECTIVE drift gillnet fishery.

I never wished for a failure of the Kenai sockeye run... a good management plan is in place to ensure the river makes its escapement. I just wanted to point out that it stipulates shutting down the nets in Cook Inlet, if it looks like the run isn't meeting expectations.

As a whole AK has done a MUCH better job of managing its salmon runs than the PNW. That doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement.!

PEACE

Where I come from emergency orders shut down a river, and what is "over escapement?" Never heard of such an alien concept. With all the netting going on and the sheer numbers, is there any chance of upping the red limit or do the commercials get all the glory?

Are we also going to be seeing a new wave of advertisement down here touting this excellent harvest? Between Alaska sockeye and Muckelshoot sockeye the consumer will be torn with a decision that's beyond their grasp.

fNp,

Has an biologist ever advised you about eye surgery?
The link you provided clearly indicates that both rivers are managed for all species and that sport anglers are the predominant harvesters of wild kings. What is your point?
The red run can support a commercial harvest so why would you object to local fishermen, who depend on these fish for their livelihood, harvesting them?
The idea that fish are released alive from seines during a volumn fishery is a fallacy.
Hold your breath until traps are legallised in Alaska. I believe that would require amending the state constitution.
Again; why the objection to a commercial harvest when there will be no negative impact on any stocks or species?

Ouch, is there going to be a debate going on I might as well pull up my lawn chair and watch this unfold

Slug ... There is no management plan (no escapement data, no goals, no run timing data, etc.) in place for second-run Kasilof kings, so I'm not sure what info in the other thread leads you to belive that there is.

This is a very lightly fished fishery with only a handful of people on the river most days. A typical sport harvest on a day might be perhaps 25 fish. On the other hand, the reported catch in the nets (I'm not even going to touch on non-report issues that are fairly well-known on netted kings) often pushes 750-1000 fish daily.

That's a pretty big disparity in the harvest balance.

Sports anglers predominant harvesters? On the Kenai, yes, on the Kasilof, not even close.

Sports anglers for years have been asking for the state to learn about these fish ... they're basically a "mythical" fish that many think don't even exist.

How can you say there is no negative impact from a fishery that takes those sorts of numbers out of a fishery with an unknown run size? You might be able to say you're not sure, but no one can say "No" until we get some more data.

While AK management generally does a better job overall, not even WA state allows a fishery like this to occur.

Could you imagine the uproar if a commerical group planted 6,000,000 sockeye smolts into a smaller river in Washington and then netted roughly 5 days a week to catch these fish without any regard for the impact on the summer kings or summer steelhead run in that river?

There's lots here that I'm afraid you don't quite understand about the situation that perhaps you need to learn a little more about to get a better grasp of what's happening.

One of the biggest questions here is why we've continued stocking this river with 6,000,000 smolts if overescapement of reds is an issue. Especially when the impact of this fishery on the other species is unknown.

PS fNp ... too low of res on my movie mode on the digicam to really show much along the banks. Just blips more than actually being able to see the fish, sorry!

When I first read this I'm thinking even as a paying client C&R 8-10 kings in a day would be awesome, hitting 25-30 in a day? Who are the greedy ones? And if you are catching that many is it possible the escapement goals whatever they are have been met? As a person who participated in the only in the Kenai mouth drift fishery in 88 when nearly 8 million Kenai sockeye returned I did see the impact on those big kings. I also believe the overescapement of reds in 87,88,89 and 92 was a major factor in the declining runs of the mid to late 90's. That's the problem how do you harvest excess fish without impacting other stocks? Not having been there for a few years what I don't understand is the 6,000,000 plants. When did that start? I was always under the understanding the Kasilof was primarily a wild red run. It's also funny how it was said the Fish and Game are conspiring with the commercial fleet. That's what the fleet has always said about the sport fisherman. What a circus that EO must be.

When I first read this I'm thinking even as a paying client C&R 8-10 kings in a day would be awesome, hitting 25-30 in a day? Who are the greedy ones? And if you are catching that many is it possible the escapement goals whatever they are have been met? As a person who participated in the only in the Kenai mouth drift fishery in 88 when nearly 8 million Kenai sockeye returned I did see the impact on those big kings. I also believe the overescapement of reds in 87,88,89 and 92 was a major factor in the declining runs of the mid to late 90's. That's the problem how do you harvest excess fish without impacting other stocks? Not having been there for a few years what I don't understand is the 6,000,000 plants. When did that start? I was always under the understanding the Kasilof was primarily a wild red run. It's also funny how it was said the Fish and Game are conspiring with the commercial fleet. That's what the fleet has always said about the sport fisherman. What a circus that EO must be.

TKS ... The Lake has been stocked for over 20 years now. I believe fry plants were as high as 17 million smolts in the early days, but was cut back to 6 million in recent years.

In a few years this part of the discussion will be moot as several groups filed legal action to stop the stocking as it takes place on a Federal Wildlife Refuge.

Yes, we need to keep the red run in check, but we also need to manage things properly. We saw maximum net time in place when we were only getting an escapement of roughly 1500 reds a day into the Kasilof. But, when we get to the major push of fish, the nets were left on the beaches and now the red numbers are too high in river. So, even weithout a big push of reds, we'll see increased netting schedules to harvest a much smaller number of reds and of course, kings. Simply poor management.

The terminal fishery at the mouth is unprecendented ... so there are certainly other unprecendented options we can look at for other ways to help remove this excess without impacting the kings. The sport limit was just finally raised to 6 fish yesterday, the first time I recall seeing that. But I've seen other streams that have too many reds go to 12, such as the Coghill. You could certainly also open dipnetting in the lake at the creek mouths as that's where those fish are in about 24 hours after hitting the river. Personal use limits could be bumped as well.

Talked to a few locals that went down to the mouth to watch it, a description of circus might be selling it short

Bob,

Terminal area, rivermouth and even in river gillnet fisheries are the preferred management technique throughout Alaska. The purpose of them is to have a single stock fishery as much as possible. Gillnets, restricted by mesh size, are the most selective, legal, commercial fishing method for salmon in Alaska.
As far as the late king run goes, it may well be a myth. My understanding is that they are stragglers of the main run
The fact is; there are no known threatened runs of salmon that will be impacted negatively by this commercial fishery. As you well know, there is a long history of sports anglers working, sometimes illegally in the case of one board of fisheries hearing, to have all runs of Cook inlet salmon except pinks and dogs reallocated to sports fisheries from the traditional commercial user group. So lets call a spade a spade, this is not an issue of biology but of politics.

17 million at one time, That's a number I wasn't aware of thanks. Politics is what drove me out of there. I agree with Slug. Cook Inlet is managed from Anchorage not locally. Biology always took a back seat to politics when I was there. Good luck.

You mean like 'true' summer kings on the Hoh are myth, right?

...or the idea that there can be several genetically distinct populations of steelhead in the same river is a myth, right?

Don't count on the early morning bite tomorrow, Bob. Looks like another EO opening the rivermouth from 4am to 7am. Any kings moving thru at that time are toast.

BTW have you started your collection of net-scarred king pics for the season. I will be documenting every one I encounter next week. I've put out a call to several guide contacts on the Kenai to do the same.

Selective my a$$. Tell that to the 7800 kings that have already perished in the nets so far. And that's only counting the ones that are reported. Thousands retained for "personal use" are NEVER even counted. Look for that slaughter to at least double by season's end.

commercial netting harvest

"As far as the late king run goes, it may well be a myth. My understanding is that they are stragglers of the main run"

Are you referring to the Crooked Creek May / June run Slug?

If so, you're completely wrong, plain and simple.

These fish are mainstem spawners and spawn from Slackwater (where they have been netted by the state in the past to get brrodstock for late run hatchery projects like the Homer Spit Lagoon) all the down to just above Trujillo's ramp.

This mythical run peaks the last two weeks of JUly and into early August and are far different fish than their first-run counterparts.

While I seriously doubt the run is threatened, it is time to learn something about them so that we can properly manage ... both on the sport and commercial end of things