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#273091 - 10/06/04 07:16 PM Top 10 Cheney lies from the debate
Stew Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 305
Loc: Extreme Left of Center
Spin it anyway you want righties but here are the facts


Oct 6, 2004

Top Ten Cheney Lies of the Vice Presidential Debate
LIE # 1: I Have Never Met Edwards Before

"Now, in my capacity as vice president, I am the president of Senate, the presiding officer. I'm up in the Senate most Tuesdays when they're in session. The first time I ever met you was when you walked on the stage tonight." [Dick Cheney, Vice Presidential Debate, 10/5/04]

FACT: Cheney Had Met Edwards on At Least Three Prior Occasions

"On Feb. 1, 2001, the vice president thanked Edwards by name at a Senate prayer breakfast and sat beside him during the event." [AP, 10/6/04]

"On April 8, 2001, Cheney and Edwards shook hands when they met off-camera during a taping of NBC's ‘Meet the Press,' moderator Tim Russert said Wednesday on ‘Today.'" [AP, 10/6/04]

"On Jan. 8, 2003, the two met when the first-term North Carolina senator accompanied Elizabeth Dole to her swearing-in by Cheney as a North Carolina senator." [AP, 10/6/04]

LIE # 2: Cheney Claimed He Had Never Linked Iraq and 9/11

"I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11." [Dick Cheney, Vice Presidential Debate, 10/5/04]

Bush Made The Same Argument in the First Presidential Debate. "Q: Does the Iraq experience make it more likely or less likely that you would take the United States in to another preemptive military action? BUSH: I would hope I never have to. I understand how hard it is to commit troops. Never wanted to commit troops. When I was running — when we had the debate in 2000, never dreamt I'd be doing that. But the enemy attacked us, Jim, and I have a solemn duty to protect the American people, to do everything I can to protect us." [George Bush, First Presidential Debate, 9/30/04, emphasis added]

FACT: Cheney Has Repeatedly Made This Claim

Question: "The Washington Post asked the American people about Saddam Hussein, and this is what they said: 69 percent said he was involved in the September 11 attacks. Are you surprised by that?"

Cheney: No. I think it's not surprising that people make that connection." [NBC, Meet the Press, 11/14/03]

Cheney: "If we're successful in Iraq, if we can stand up a good representative government in Iraq, that secures the region so that it never again becomes a threat to its neighbors or to the United States, so it's not pursuing weapons of mass destruction, so that it's not a safe haven for terrorists, now we will have struck a major blow right at the heart of the base, if you will, the geographic base of the terrorists who have had us under assault now for many years, but most especially on 9/11." [NBC, "Meet The Press," 9/14/03, emphasis added]

LIE # 3: The Khan Smuggling Network has been Shutdown

"The suppliers network that provided that, headed by Mr. A.Q. Khan, has been shut down." [Dick Cheney, Vice Presidential Debate, 10/5/04]

Bush Made Same Argument in First Presidential Debate. "Libya has disarmed. The A.Q. Khan network has been brought to justice." [George Bush, First Presidential Debate, 9/30/04]

FACT: Recent Arrests Show the Network May Be Still Active

Arrests of South African and Germans Show A.Q. Khan Network May Still Be Active. A South African man arrested Thursday is suspected of playing a major role in the nuclear black market that supplied Libya, according to American and foreign officials. According to investigators, who could discuss the matter only on the condition of anonymity, Meyer was doing business with two German businessmen who are also being investigated for their ties to South Africa, Libya and the Khan network. German authorities announced that they had arrested a man suspected of selling high-tech equipment on the nuclear black market, the third German businessman named as a suspect in the past month in an investigation into the trade in several countries. The arrests and charges are part of a global investigation, spearheaded by the International Atomic Energy Agency, that extends to about 20 countries. The probe's focus is a nuclear technology network run by Pakistan's top atomic scientist, Abdul Qadeer Khan. [Washington Post, 9/4/04; 9/24/04]

LIE # 4: Bush's War in Iraq Convinced Libya to Disarm

"One of the great by-products, for example, of what we did in Iraq and Afghanistan is that five days after we captured Saddam Hussein, Moammar Gadhafi in Libya came forward and announced that he was going to surrender all of his nuclear materials to the United States, which he has done." [Dick Cheney, Vice Presidential Debate, 10/5/04]

Bush Repeated The Same Line in First Presidential Debate. "We convinced Libya to disarm." [George Bush, First Presidential Debate, 9/30/04]

FACT: Libya Was Already Moving to Disarm Before Iraq War

Libya's Decision To Disarm Preceded The Bush Administration And War In Iraq. According to Tony Blair, Libya first approached the US and Britain regarding its weapons question as the Iraq war approached. Blair said, "Libya came to us in March [2003] following successful negotiations on Lockerbie to see if it could resolve its weapons of mass destruction issue in a similarly cooperative manner." The son of Libyan leader Moammar Qaddafi dismissed any link in his father's decision to the war in Iraq or the capture of the former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein. Saif Al-Islam Gadhafi told CNN that "the capture of Saddam or the invasion of Iraq is irrelevant" to Libya's announcement. Joseph Cirincione of the Carnegie Endowment believes that Libya's decision "goes back over 10 years of international pressure on the Qaddafi regime…[the] whole move precedes the Bush administration and precedes the war in Iraq." [Washington Times, 12/20/03; CNN.com, 12/20/03]

LIE # 5: Cheney Claimed They've Never Let Up on Osama Bin Ladin

"We've never let up on Osama bin Laden from day one." [Dick Cheney, Vice Presidential Debate, 10/5/04]

Failing To Go After A Cornered Bin Laden The " Gravest Error" in the War on Terror. "The Bush administration has concluded that Osama bin Laden was present during the battle for Tora Bora late last year and that failure to commit U.S. ground troops to hunt him was its gravest error in the war against al Qaeda, according to civilian and military officials with first-hand knowledge." [Washington Post, 4/17/02]

BUSH: "And [Osama Bin Laden is] just – he 's a person who has now been marginalized. His network is — his host government has been destroyed. He's the ultimate parasite who found weakness, exploited it, and met his match…So I don't know where he is. Nor — you know, I just don't spend that much time on him really, to be honest with you. I…I truly am not that concerned about him." [Bush Remarks, 3/13/02, emphasis added]

LIE # 6: 10 Million Voters are Registered in Afghanistan

"[In Afghanistan] we've got 10 million voters who have registered to vote, nearly half of them women." [Cheney Remarks, Vice Presidential Debate, 10/5/04]

Bush Repeated The Same Line in First Presidential Debate. "And the Taliban, no longer in power; 10 million people have registered to vote in Afghanistan in the upcoming presidential election." [George Bush, First Presidential Debate, 9/30/04]

FACT: Human Rights Watch Found Registration Numbers Exaggerated

Bush and Cheney Exaggerate the Number of Registered Voters. "Human Rights Watch this week said that figure was inaccurate because of the multiple registrations of many voters. In a lengthy report, the respected organization also documented how human rights abuses are fueling a pervasive atmosphere of repression and fear in many parts of the country, with voters in those areas having little faith in the secrecy of the balloting and often facing threats and bribes from militia factions." [Wash Post, 10/1/04]

LIE # 7: Kerry Voted for Higher Taxes 98 Times

"Gwen, the Kerry record on taxes is one basically of voting for a large number of tax increases — 98 times in the United States Senate." [Cheney Remarks, Vice Presidential Debate, 10/5/04]

FACT: 98 Times Figure Has Been Repeatedly Debunked

"Mr. Cheney said that Mr. Kerry had voted 98 times to raise taxes. No question, he cast votes for higher taxes. But the number Mr. Cheney cited included multiple votes on the same legislation. Mr. Edwards said Mr. Kerry had voted against the overall legislation to cut taxes because the benefits went largely to the wealthy." [New York Times, 10/6/04]

"Cheney claimed Kerry had voted 98 times to raise taxes. As we've pointed outbefore, that's an inflated figure that counts multiple votes on the same tax bills, and also counts votes on budget measures that only set tax targets but don't actually bring about tax increases by themselves." [Factcheck.org, 10/6/04]

LIE # 8: Kerry Wants to Raise Taxes on Small Businesses

"A great many of our small businesses pay taxes under the personal income taxes rather than the corporate, and about 900,000 small businesses will be hit if you do in fact do what they want to do at the top bracket. That's not smart because 7 out of 10 new jobs in America are created by small businesses. You do not want to tax them. Bad idea to increase the burden on those folks." [Cheney Remarks, Vice Presidential Debate, 10/5/04]

FACT: That Claim Has Been Roundly Debunked By the Press

"Cheney made a puffed-up claimthat ‘900,000 small businesses will be hit'should Kerry and Edwards raise taxes on individuals making more than $200,000 a year, as they promise to do. As we'veexplainedbefore, 900,000 isan inflated figure that results from counting every high-income individual who reports even $1 of business income as a "small business owner." Even Cheney and his wife Lynne would qualify as a "small business owner" under that definition because Mrs. Cheney reports income as a "consultant" from fees she collects as a corporate board member, even though she had no employees and the business income is only 3.5% of the total income reported on their 2003 tax returns." [Factcheck.org, 10/6/04]

"Cheney said Kerry's tax-cut rollback would hit 900,000 small businesses. This is misleading. Under Cheney's definition, a small business is any taxpayer who includes some income from a small business investment, partnership, limited liability corporation or trust. By that definition, every partner at a huge accounting firm or at the largest law firm would represent small businesses. According to IRS data, a tiny fraction of small business ‘S-corporations' earn enough profits to be in the top two tax brackets. Most are in the bottom two brackets." [Washington Post, 10/6/04]

"Mr. Cheney said that 900,000 small businesses would be affected by the Kerry proposal to raise taxes on individuals with incomes of more than $200,000. The Tax Policy Center found that only about 5 percent of small businesses would be affected by the Kerry plan and that much of the income of the business operators who would be affected came from sources other than their businesses." [New York Times, 10/6/04]

LIE # 9: Kerry-Edwards Flip-Flopped on No Child Left Behind (NCLB)

"Gwen, No Child Left Behind, they were for it; now they're against it. They voted for it; now they're opposed to it." [Cheney Remarks, Vice Presidential Debate, 10/5/04]

FACT: Kerry-Edwards Want to Properly Fund, Not Abandon, NCLB

"Cheney charged that Kerry and Edwards oppose the No Child Left Behind education law, which imposes new accountability standards on public schools. Both senators voted for the law and support some modifications and billions of dollars to fully fund the education program." [Washington Post, 10/6/04]

Bush Broke Promise to Fully Fund No Child Left Behind By $27 Billion. Bush's last four budgets have cumulatively provided $27 billion less than what was pledged under NCLB. While President Bush touts what he calls "historic" increases in education funding, the reality is that federal education funding would be $11 billion less than its current level of $55.7 billion for FY 2004 if Congress had enacted Bush's budget requests. If Bush took 11 cents out of every dollar of tax cuts for the top 1 percent of the wealthiest Americans, he could fully fund NCLB. [President's FY 2005 Budget, http://www.ed.gov; historical data at http://www.ed.gov FY 2005 Budget; Education Week, 9/29/04; CBO, 8/04]

LIE # 10: Minority Achievement Gap Is Shrinking

"We are making significant progress and closing the achievement gap. The results from studies coming in show without question that on math and science, math and reading that in fact our minority students our Hispanic and African-American state of the unions are doing better in the gap between them and the majority population is in fact closing." [Dick Cheney, Vice Presidential Debate, 10/5/04]

FACT: No Evidence to Support That, Bush Policies Will Expand the Gap

Cheney Exaggerates Evidence of Minority Gains. "There is fragmentary data to support Bush's claim that the additional federal dollars to schools and the new accountability standards have helped minority students improve their test scores relative to white students, but education specialists agree there is not yet enough evidence to declare the act a nationwide success. Besides, the ‘achievement gap' has been getting narrower for roughly the past decade, said Paul Peterson, director of the Program in Education Policy and Governance at Harvard's Kennedy School." [Boston Globe, 9/24/04; emphasis added]

The Bush Administration Loosened Graduation Accountability Standards, Leaving Behind 1 of Every 2 Black High School Students. A study by Harvard University and the Urban Institute revealed that half or more of Black and Hispanic youth in the United States are getting left behind before high school graduation because the Bush administration eliminated graduation accountability standards and their strict emphasis on test scores, which would increase the likelihood that low achieving minority students will continue to be pushed to the margins. According to the study, "The drop-out/push-out problem for minority school children in the US is likely to grow more severe on test based accountability." NCLB originally required states to establish standards of academic accountability for different subgroups; however, the new report reveals that Education Secretary Rodney Paige exempted graduation rates from this requirement. ["Losing Our Future," http://www.civilrightsproject.harvard.edu LosingOurFuture.pdf>; http://www.urbaninstitute.org]
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#273092 - 10/06/04 10:59 PM Re: Top 10 Cheney lies from the debate
grandpa Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 08/18/02
Posts: 1714
Loc: brier,wa
I am working on the top ten reasons Stew should be investigated by Homeland Security and the FBI....should be an easy list to compile....
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#273093 - 10/07/04 12:56 AM Re: Top 10 Cheney lies from the debate
Stew Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 305
Loc: Extreme Left of Center
Quote:
Originally posted by grandpa:
I am working on the top ten reasons Stew should be investigated by Homeland Security and the FBI....should be an easy list to compile....
You know what's scary about that statement grandpa? You are probably serious :p
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#273094 - 10/07/04 11:05 AM Re: Top 10 Cheney lies from the debate
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
Edwards only told the truth once and this was it.

Senator Edwards: "One thing that's very clear is that a long resume does not equal good judgment."

He was talking about Kerrys record in the Senate and the previous years of lefty activism. Kerry could not even keep the promise of his wedding vows to his first wife. His second wife can do nothing but talk about her first husband. So good for Edwards telling the truth.
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#273095 - 10/07/04 11:43 AM Re: Top 10 Cheney lies from the debate
goharley Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 3188
Loc: U.S. Army
Cheney is as full of crap as the radical right that hangs out here.

He couldn't even get something as simple as a web address right. But thanks to his blunder factcheck.org has a new article that points out the spin from the VP debates. No surprise that Cheney out-lied Edwards 5 to 2 on average.

So typical of the radical-right; when you have nothing of substance to offer, you try to assasinate with spun information. :rolleyes:

For some real entertainment, you should read his views on the report by Duelfer. Unbelievable how out of touch Cheney is.
Cheney\'s desparate insanity
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#273096 - 10/07/04 11:55 AM Re: Top 10 Cheney lies from the debate
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
You fanatics crack me up. Pointing out that politicians lie like you had an epiphany. Then saying well our guy lied less than the other guy. The lying on both sides is at an all time high. There is no moral ground here just comedy and sadness.
_________________________
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#273097 - 10/07/04 01:28 PM Re: Top 10 Cheney lies from the debate
goharley Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 3188
Loc: U.S. Army
Thank you for making my point clear. I'm sure to expect even more clarification from you in the near future. ;\)
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#273098 - 10/07/04 10:26 PM Re: Top 10 Cheney lies from the debate
grandpa Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 08/18/02
Posts: 1714
Loc: brier,wa
Stew.....be afraid....very very afraid...oooooooo
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#273099 - 10/07/04 10:56 PM Re: Top 10 Cheney lies from the debate
grandpa Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 08/18/02
Posts: 1714
Loc: brier,wa
Stew I would check for wiretaps if I were you. Look and see if your mail has been steamed open. Watch out for big black Suburbans with tinted windows too.
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#273100 - 10/08/04 03:17 AM Re: Top 10 Cheney lies from the debate
Stew Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 305
Loc: Extreme Left of Center
Quote:
Originally posted by grandpa:
Stew I would check for wiretaps if I were you. Look and see if your mail has been steamed open. Watch out for big black Suburbans with tinted windows too.
How about black helicopters? Damn things seem to be all over the place lately
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#273101 - 10/08/04 08:28 AM Re: Top 10 Cheney lies from the debate
grandpa Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 08/18/02
Posts: 1714
Loc: brier,wa
No I'm not serious.....but I think I hear a chopper overhead...yikes!
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