So we don't have to mow the lawn for the rest of our lives.
G

If obeying God's Word was a 'requirement', nobody would pass the mustard... (or whatever that expression should be...)

It actually works like this...

You see yourself for what you are - a non-perfect human being. Someone who makes mistakes, does selfish things from time to time, etc etc. Even if you are practically a 'saint', you realize you could never truely be 'perfect'.

You then see God for what He is. Perfect in everyway.

No matter how hard you try, you can never be 'perfect enough' to earn your way to be with Him.

If you take a gallon of pure water and add the smallest drop of contaminated water to it, you no longer have pure water. Or if you have something that is perfectly light, and add a tiny bit of darkeness, that light is no longer perfect. The point is, our imperfection and God's perfection are simply incompatible.

God solved that problem through Jesus Christ. A perfect sacrifice. He sits at the right hand of God (so to speak) and when God judges our imperfect selves, Jesus steps in for us and says "he is one of mine, I paid the price for his sins".

If you accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour, you have the 'way' to bridge that gap between the perfect God and the imperfect person.

It is a natural following of making this free choice to accept Him as your Saviour, that you show your love and appreciation for what He did for you (being crucified on the cross as the ultimate and perfect act of self sacrifice) by trying to follow His teachings...

I'm sure you are pounding your head against a wall about now or maybe just laughing or even a little freaked out

But I just wanted to clarify what you said a little (or maybe just confuse you more...).

The inventor of the Harley-Davidson motorcycle, Arthur Davidson,
died and went to heaven. At the gates, St. Peter told Arthur, "Since
you've been such a good man and your motorcycles have changed
the world, your reward is, you can hang out with anyone you want in
Heaven."
Arthur thought about it for a minute and then said, "I want to hang out
with God

St. Peter took Arthur to the Throne Room, and introduced him to God.
God recognized Arthur and commented, "Okay, so you were the one who
invented motorcycles, eh?!"
Arthur said, "Yeah, that's me..."
God commented: "Well, what's the big deal in inventing something that's
pretty unstable, makes noise and pollution, and can't run without a
road?!"
Arthur was apparently embarrassed, but finally spoke, "Excuse me, but
aren't you the inventor of woman???"
God said, "Ah, yes."
"Well," said Arthur, "professional to professional, you have some major
design flaws in your invention:
(1). There's too much inconsistency in the front-end protrusion
(2). It chatters constantly at high speeds
(3). Most of the rear ends are too soft and wobble
(4). The intake is placed way too close to the exhaust
(5). And the maintenance costs are outrageous!!"
"Hmmmm, you may have some good points there," replied God, "hold on."
God went to his Celestial super-computer, typed in a few words and
waited
for the results. The computer printed out a slip of paper and God read
it.
"Well, it may be true that my invention is flawed," God said to Arthur,
but
according to these numbers, more men are riding my invention than
yours".

But it actually is unconditional love. Just not unconditional justice at judement time. There must be justice and accountability for all sin to bring that which is not perfect in unison with that which is. He fixed that problem by offering up His son to take the full measure of the required judgement for those who simply accept this offer of salvation\grace.

As a Christian, I still sin. I am not perfect. But when I sit before God and am held accountable for my sins, Jesus will be my advocate. It's free and unconditional. But there will be justice and accountabilty in the end...

You turned the Key Auntym. Most of the religions dogma is just that, dogma. The fraternal orgnizations that call themselve the manifestation of God on earth are full of themselves. I personally believe that none of the creations of man, religions in this case, is the work of God. God is out there in the forest, on the mountain top, at sea, and in your heart and head. The rest of it is froth. That is not to deny the obvious rules a society must live by to survive.

You turned the Key Auntym. Most of the religious dogma is just that, dogma. The fraternal orgnizations that call themselve the manifestation of God on earth are full of themselves. I personally believe that none of the creations of man, religions in this case, is the work of God. God is out there in the forest, on the mountain top, at sea, and in your heart and head. The rest of it is froth. That is not to deny the obvious rules a society must live by to survive.

You turned the Key Auntym. Most of the religious dogma is just that, dogma. The fraternal orgnizations that call themselve the manifestation of God on earth are full of themselves. I personally believe that none of the creations of man, religions in this case, is the work of God. God is out there in the forest, on the mountain top, at sea, and in your heart and head. The rest of it is froth. That is not to deny the obvious rules a society must live by to survive.

God took care of the 'doing' part via Jesus. We just have to recognize it.

Why did he bother sending Jesus? Unconditional love. Nobody 'deserved' it based on their own 'doing'...

Christians follow the teaching of Jesus. Some get a little side tracked and mislead in areas... But all we need to do is look to the Bible. The NT was written by the direct apostles of Jesus. Our current Bible translations are pretty darned close to the original texts\letters....

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John 3:16, John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

http://www.gotquestions.org/John-3-16.html

God does love everyone--Man and woman (Adam and Eve) were created and had 'heaven on earth' in the Garden of Eden~and had all their needs met with no pain or suffering of any kind for them or their offspring for all eternity and all God asked of them is that they not eat from the Tree of Knowledge --Then Satan, in the form of a snake convinces Eve that God has lied to her and her partner Adam concerning the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. It convinces her to eat the fruit of the tree so that they will become as gods.

They were then cast out of the Garden of Eden after she ate from the tree (this is where we get the phrase 'she ate me out of house and home.'

Aunty,

It's unfortunate you're so turned off by Christianity-- It seems as though your only knowledge and/or exposure to it is the gloom and doom, fire and brimstone judgement that you always talk about. There are some churches that unfortunately give that impression to people--but what you and others (including many of those who describe themselves as Christians) don't get about salvation~is that according to the Bible, God states clearly that we don't earn our way into Heaven by our acts or 'good deeds'--if the was the cost of entry no one could ever afford it--We are given the gift of forgivenes for our sins (or transgretions) and eternal life for the price of reaching out to him (God) with faith and accepting his Son as our Savior.

The 'conditions' you speak of (living our lives free of sin and following God's rules as outlined in the Bible) are not required to get into heaven itself~but rather a guide for living here on earth with the most ease, peacefullness, joy and fullfilment as is possible.

ALL those who a become Christians will invarably sin or fall short of what God wants from us at some point. The story of the Prodigal Son is a great illustration into God's unconditional love for his children:

The Parable of the Lost Son

11Jesus continued: "There was a man who had two sons. 12The younger one said to his father, 'Father, give me my share of the estate.' So he divided his property between them.
13"Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. 14After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. 15So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. 16He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything.

17"When he came to his senses, he said, 'How many of my father's hired men have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! 18I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. 19I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired men.' 20So he got up and went to his father.
"But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.

21"The son said to him, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.[b]'

22"But the father said to his servants, 'Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let's have a feast and celebrate. 24For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' So they began to celebrate.

25"Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. 26So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. 27'Your brother has come,' he replied, 'and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.'

28"The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. 29But he answered his father, 'Look! All these years I've been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!'

31" 'My son,' the father said, 'you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' "

Salmo this is one of the best posts I've read on this board.....ever! Another HUGE problem is that the loving, caring GRANDPARENTS of these kids get dragged back into child rearing duty at the time in their lives when they deserve to relax and go fishing whenever they want! My own father in law got stuck with this....his loser son's girlfriend dropped off their 2-year old "for a visit" one fine day....well, that friggin' visit has lasted 15 years. We lost my mother-in-law 5 years ago........can you imagine being essentially a "single father" at age 82? Uncle Mingo handles fishing duty (she took her first smallie, a nice 3 pounder, under my tutelage recently ) and yard maintenance and my wife is more or less a surrogate mother....like many of you have said, the kids deserve better but this society has got to STOP REWARDING IRRESPONSIBILITY! All day long people flap their gums about "my rights, my rights"..............but they never ever flap their gums about "my responsibilities"....NO, they'd rather play now and let the rest of us pick up the tab.

Nicely stated Salmo.......you too, AuntyM!

Wow.. any subject and its about God again.

I think there is a God. Jesus was a man. Nothing more. The Bible was written by people who knew for certain that the earth was flat.

Live your life with the hope that people treat you today like you treated them yesterday and you will be fine.

There is a place for organized religion. Problem is, the majority of wars, killing etc have been instigated and carried out in the name of God, by organized religion.

No matter how right you think you may be about whatever religion you follow, you are in a minority group as most of the rest of the world disagrees with you.

Christians ( from all groups) seem to pick and choose which teaching from the rules book ( the bible) that they want to follow. If there is a God, and I am sure there is, his love is unconditional, or this planet would be empty with the exception of whoever it happens to be thats actually right.

Sorry to hear about all the single mothers ruining peoples lives etc. At the same time, it takes two idiots to make it happen. End of story.

" The reason there is hair on it is so you can't see the hook "... My Grandfather.. 1976 or so.

This is becoming a very wide spread problem, didn’t they coin a term for this?

There was a show on 20/20 or something like that. The show went over how today’s generation of parents are lacking in responsibility and leave much of the parenting duties up to the Grandparents.

I am 35 and my wife and I have our first kid on the way. He will be born around November 19th. I can tell you this, if I were to become a slacker parent, I would fear the can of whoop ass my mom would come deliver on me.

Aunty
Sounds like the perfect marriage to me
My side of the family has little drama, actually none at all. My wife’s side is filled with it. She gets off the phone with here family and just starts shaking her head at the crazy stuff her family gets into. After seeing so many marriages go bad my wife and I sure are glad we found each other.

"Wow.. any subject and its about God again. "

Hmmm, that is interesting. Who mentioned God first? (even if it was tic)


"I think there is a God. '

Based on what?

"Jesus was a man. Nothing more. "

Not according to his own words and teaching. Not according to those who knew him personally. Not according to those whose lives he's changed for centuries...


"The Bible was written by people"

Written by people who were directly inspired by God...


"who knew for certain that the earth was flat."

What does that have to do with anything? The Bible isn't a book about physics or astronomy - it is about God and His effort to have a relationship with people. We learn new things everyday in the areas of science, health, physics, astronomy, etc etc. What we thought was true one day is determined to be wrong the next. Science today is clearly more advanced, but anyone who thinks we have it all figured out is a fool...


"Live your life with the hope that people treat you today like you treated them yesterday and you will be fine."

This is a great philosophy that Jesus himself encouraged


"There is a place for organized religion. "

Thanks for your approval

"Problem is, the majority of wars, killing etc have been instigated and carried out in the name of God, by organized religion. "

Simply not true, but spread around as truth among those against Christians all the time.


"No matter how right you think you may be about whatever religion you follow, you are in a minority group as most of the rest of the world disagrees with you. "

Fine. Sometimes the truth is understood by the minority. That doesn't make it less true...


"Christians ( from all groups) seem to pick and choose which teaching from the rules book ( the bible) that they want to follow. "

Actually the NT is about breaking people free from those "rules".

Where many Christian groups slip up is trying to impose some of those rules on their members (or even non-christians): how you dress, whether or not you can work on Sunday, what specific day you should attend church, what food you should or should not eat, etc etc. Those who follow the teaching of Jesus are set free from the Law of the OT.


"If there is a God, and I am sure there is, his love is unconditional, or this planet would be empty with the exception of whoever it happens to be thats actually right. "

His love is unconditional, even if Aunty refuses to see it

The proof that His love is unconditional is made evident by the fact that a large majority of the world does not yet know Him and \ or accept his gift of salvation. He has created us with free will. He wants us to find him on our own. Just as a parent loves his child who has turned his back on his family. The parent waits in hope that the child will see the error of his ways and be welcomed back.

"WHAT PART OF UNCONDITIONAL LOVE DON'T YOU GET?"

So AM, let's say someone calls and tells you they want to give you $1,000,000. UNCONDITIONAL!!!

On friday, just go to your mail box and get the check.

"WHAT! I have to go and get the check??? I thought you said 'UNCONDITIONAL'???????"


If it were me offering that check, I'd probably get pi$$ed off and give it to someone else... Fortunately God is much more patient and forgiving than I am

So, does hell contain more souls than heaven or less? From what I hear from some it should contain almost every soul that ever was. As god is unforgiving, impatient and vengeful. Then from others it should contain almost no souls as god is forgiving and patient.

I'll tell you what, after you and I die, we can have Shirley McLean (sp??) channel our spirits.

I'll give the head count in heaven, and you can give the head count in hell. Then we'll know for sure


Seriously - only God can answer that question...

Is side stepping kinda like 2 stepping? I really don't like country western dancing of any kind... Don't get me started on line dancing...

You can say i'm side stepping, I can say you are just being stubborn and hard headed. (would that description of you surpise anyone??)

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That's one of the reasons why you, Aunty M. and others are having trouble grasping the 'good news' of Jesus Christ and all that is offered by knowing him as descibed in the New Testament of the Bible. You're going by (making judgements according to) what you've 'heard' from or seen about God and Christianity in others (mortal imperfect men).

Phreak,

If God is as perfect as his advocates here claim, the human body wouldn’t need a different design. Nor would humans need to behave differently. They could “practice” making babies all they want. A perfect and omnipotent God would bestow the birth of children only to couples ready and responsible enough to assume the duties of parenthood. This “design” works throughout human history, with children being born when parents are the right age according to capabilities and lifespans of their era.

I don’t have to allow for “free will,” as an omnipotent God and human free will are mutually exclusive. And yes, I’ve read the arguments for both cases. I’m partial to the case that humans cannot possible have free will if the omnipotent God knows their predestination to accept or reject him. I accept that if God knows, then it ain’t free will (kind of like Aunty M’s stance on unconditional love - and your mailbox story is not an analogous fit BTW.). And if it is free will, then God ain’t omnipotent, which also means not perfect, which also means not God as described by you and most “true” believers.

Further, what is so perfect about a God, who first makes Adam and Eve, but demands that they not eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil? He wants them to be illiterate, but happy, retards? I thought we’ve come to understand that all good and responsible parents want to educate our children, and that includes knowing about both good and evil. Doesn’t this story stretch it a bit for you?

And if the NT is about breaking people free from the laws of the OT, are Jews condemned to Hell?

Grumpy,

You got it right as to why healthy responsible parents have kids. ‘Cept my daughters never did learn to mow the lawn.

Rory,

Thank you for pasting the story of the Prodigal Son. It’s the perfect story of lunacy, and the complete justification for irresponsible “Christian” behavior. If I’d read far enough through my Bible as a young boy, I would have stopped then and there at the Prodigal Son and made that my model of personal behavior. The Prodigal Son gets to have his cake (actually someone else’s) and eat it too. I can’t think of a better religious lifestyle than to spend it boozin’, whorin’, and being a general reprobate, and then just shy of my deathbed proclaiming my acceptance of Jesus as personal lord and savior. It just doesn’t get any better than that.

The Prodigal Son, along with the far right wing whacko fundamentalist non-Christian Cult, have done more than anything else ever could to steer me toward my present spiritual soup of semi-Christian, Pagan, Heathen, . . .

Are we far enough off topic yet?

Sincerely,

Salmo g.