TK,

Just because you're a jerk here doesn't mean that I think you're stupid about everything. You know a thing or two about business, and I'm guessing that includes contracts. Marriage is a social contract. It takes the actions of two to keep it, but only the actions of one to breach it. Once a contract is broken, it is no longer in effect. Like I said, you seem strongly given to assumptions in this instance that you know nothing about.

It would be silly to say I've never lied, altho I don't much because I'm really bad at it - my mother could always tell, and I guess others could as well. But for everything that's ever mattered, I keep my word.

Maybe not so sure about piety, but it seems you've worn your brand of Christianity on your sleeve here. Did I misinterpret something? And the evidence abounds that you behave like a complete jacka$$ here, but I simply attribute that to your stated purpose of trying to p!ss people off. Nonetheless, it doesn't strike me as very Christian-like.

Phreak,

Yes, you'd be one busy man. This topic hardly seems worth the energy, but I thought if you took a look, you'd see that TK and Rory are perfect examples of the right wing whacko fundy Christian Cult of hypocrits who, on the one hand proclaim their Christianity, and on the other - at least in this sector of cyber-space - devote their endless energy to entirely unChristian-like behavior. Ergo - they're sorta' like the Prodigal Son, behaving badly while professing their Christianity.

And there have come to be too many like them. I'm not writing off Christianity, but I prefer to keep myself well distanced from the likes of that particular Cult of Christianity. I'm not a Bible reader, but I have attended church and received some essential Christian education, so I have at least a smattering of an idea about Christ, how he lived, and how he urged others to live, and TK, Rory, and the other Cult members behave, if not live, quite the opposite.

Too many, and the neocons chief among them, who are doing that horrible job you mentioned of not living up to it.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

You hate Christians and define them such that you can justify your hate. Noting new nothing special. If you put as much time reading up on Christianity ,which it is clear you know next to nothing about, as you do fishing regs you would know it is PP's job as a Christian to do such.


Hard to say if I have seen people think higher of themselves than you people do. Which is interesting beacuse you think you are here because your ancestors crawled out of the mud. The irony of it all.

He knows everything, we know nothing, and yet it's us that think highly of ourselves.

You can't pay for comedy like this.

Dan,

Remember, he's only here to see if he can p!ss someone off. But you're right, his entertainment value seems to be his highest value. Higher than his religious values, IMO.

TK's funny.

PhishPhreak,

You seem like a smart, sincere guy who's rather fair and balanced.

I probably don't even need to ask, but I'd hope you make any assessments about me based soley on what I've said or written and not what's said or written about me by some third party.

Sincerely,

Rory b.

" You know a thing or two about business, and I'm guessing that includes contracts. Marriage is a social contract. It takes the actions of two to keep it, but only the actions of one to breach it. Once a contract is broken, it is no longer in effect."

That is a classic spin on the matter. It is a 50/50 contract and you where not forced to stand up in front of everyone to announce the terms of the contract you chose to do that. 50% is yours and 50% is hers. I own my 50%. Good bad or indifferent it's mine.


"Like I said, you seem strongly given to assumptions in this instance that you know nothing about. "

You are too old to have to be reminded that one should not lead someone down a path that one does not wish to travel. You walked up and set the ball on the tee and are now suprised that I took a swing? 50+ years and you are that niave?

OK, one more to go after this, then I'll be caught up...

>>>“And since God doesn't show up and define Himself to us, how else can He be defined, except by men? “

***Well, first you start with an assumption that there is a God and that this God wants to be known by men in a way that is comprehendible by men of all levels of education, etc. He needs a way to provide this Truth about himself that will work from the beginning of man to the end. He can’t just stand there ‘in the clouds’ and say “look at me” or he’ll violate our freewill of choosing to believe he exists or not. There HAS to be compelling alternatives.

So for the early years, God used oral tradition through the Hebrews who were very structured and amazingly good at passing down traditions from one generation to the next. In time, these oral traditions were written down and saved. At the time of Jesus, the role of the Hebrews\Jews in preserving the OT had been fulfilled. Now when the Gospel of Jesus needed to be spread to all nations, languages, cultures, etc, the OT and the Gospel\NT could be documented, preserved, and shared in writings.

The early Catholic Church played a role in preserving the Bible (not without problem, but that is another topic) through the ‘dark ages’ during the rise and fall of empires and the pillaging and burning of the old libraries and during times when very few people were educated enough to even read.

In the last several hundred years, education, the availability of books \ bibles became much more prevalent. Those that had preserved the texts (amazingly well when compared to the Dead Sea scrolls and other ancient writings found) – i.e. the Catholic Church, had also abused the power they had because they controlled who could and could not read the scriptures (and thus controlled how the scriptures should be interpreted). Along comes guys like Martin Luther who realized what had been happening and desired to put the scriptures back in the hands of the common person. The timing of course was spot on because printing presses had just started being used. Today anybody can get a bible and read it (in their own language) in nearly every corner of the world (or look it up on the internet  ).

Today we have access to many biblical versions. Some are word for word translations while others are more thought for thought oriented. Bother are valuable tools for studying the Bible. We have confidence in the translations based on the remarkable accuracy found when compared to the ancient writings. We have so many resources like concordances and other tools that help us study words and phrases used in Biblical times to help understand the modern meaning based on a very good understanding of the culture, traditions, politics, social issues, historical references, archaeological references, etc.

But even with all of those resources, God tells us through the Bible that the Word and Wisdom of God given to us is all foolishness to the unbeliever. For the believer, God has given the gift of the Holy Spirit to guide us in spiritual matters and in discerning the mysteries of the Bible.


>>>“The unfortunate fact is that this whole shebang is an issue of faith, and faith only.”

***By design, this is true. But there is plenty of evidence – from evidence that backs up the historical claims of the Bible, so the evidence of millions of lives completely and unbelievably changed by God and the evidence of God working in your personal life. The latter form of evidence is impossible to know unless you or someone you know has personally experienced it. The evidence is very compelling in that case…


>>>“I'll just say that Christianity in the U.S. in undergoing a period of especially bad salesmanship on the part of its most visible and vocal "practitioners." I placed quotes around that because we discovered the other day that these most visible, vocal are actually just another cult”

***That has always been the case. The good news is that with the tools we have at our fingertips, we can clearly discern who the ‘cults’ are and who is misusing Christianity and twisting it for their own agendas.


>>>“Or any other question regarding Religion, God, whats right and whats wrong or anything on the matter. However, you seem to have all the answers. Maybe your God ??? “

***Nobody has all the answers. I have faith – educated, experienced, and personal faith. I am learning all the time.

PP,

Is this source you are referencing available online?

Yeah AM your method really worked for you. Your kid is proof right? I know I know it's all her fault your little baby boy got taken advantage of by the big bad she wolf. I prefer to listen to and take advice from people that are doing things right. I use the others like you to learn what not to do. So I will continue to live my beautiful life with my beautiful wife and kids.

TK,

You post here to see if you can p!ss people off, and you call that a beautiful life? Now that furthers our understanding of you. No wonder you've been in counseling for 18 years. Too bad it isn't doing much good.

I'm not sure what you are referring to. Can you be more specific?

No, the prodigal son turned his back on his father and freely and purposely sought a life seperate from him and his influence, approval, love, etc.

In your example with TK and Rory, they would better fit the example of the other son. We don't know from the story if, after the initial bitterness and anger, he actually matured and got over it, or if he continued to live in resentment toward his brother.

Perhaps. My purpose here is simply to promote and communicate what I feel Christianity is really about, and to try and answer any questions and clear up any confusion regarding the Bible and Christianity.

Would anyone really benefit from more 'Christian in-fighting'? Instead, I'm relying on your logic\reason and intellect to discern what true Christianity should look like, vs what it shouldn't. By clearly presenting the 'Truth' you should be able to draw your own conclusions about who is or who isn't living up to the 'label' of "Christian". The tricky thing is, nobody can really 'live up to it' 24x7 since nobody is perfect. So that is why I try to paint a picture of Jesus as described in the Bible - he is the model you should look to in understanding Christianity. Looking to me, TK, Pat Robertson, GW, etc will just help reinforce your copout of saying "look, more supposed Christians who are just as screwed up as anyone else, so Christianity must be a useless religion..."

Most religions, the works of men, fraternal (hah) organizations are quite useless except when they find the wherewithal to help some folks out... Faith in a supreme being, now that's another matter entirely.

Aunty,

If you ever want to know why I say or do anything, you can always just ask.

It would be nice if you just let people talk for themselves. Most particpants on this board, myself included are fully capable of explaining their posts (or lack thereof) if someone wants to know the reasoning behind them.

The fact is that I never have anything negative to say about Jeff'e'd because ever since I've been reading his posts here on PP, I've noticed and respected the polite, considerate and articulate ways he contributes to this forum. I may not always agree with what he says, but it's pretty hard to shoot the messanger when the message is delivered with so much maturity and class.

Show me where i've ever said that?

I'd be interested in seeing your list (top 5 even) of "those who contribute most to humanity".

I am like a mirror refelcting the anger you have in yourself. Divorces, Failed relationships. Unfulfilled dreams, estranged family relationships. Humanism is not providing the answers.

OK, last one and I'm caught up.


>>>“THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS.. “

***What are your personal credentials for being the bearer of the “TRUTH”?? Or did you mean “your opinion of the truth”?


>>>“God has never told anyone, anything, at any time.. ever. “

***Your faith seams pretty strong in this conviction…


>>>“Most organized religion hold on to the theory that God told some folks ( directly mind you) how it is and should be many thousands of years ago.. and never has said another word since... “

***This again is by logical design. We have enough trouble now days with churches disagreeing on the slightest doctrinal issue. Imagine what it would be like if we had every tom, dick, and harry telling everyone that God gave them a ‘NEW MESSAGE’ last night? Actually that is just what many cults have been doing for years, but again, that is another topic… Instead, God gave us all we need to know via the Bible. Like the US Constitution, we know what it says (some healthy and some not so healthy disagreements aside) and we know for sure when someone tries to add or take away from it. We have a solid baseline. You see lots of Bible translations simply flop because they just stray too far from the Word. You see man pastors (and even political leaders) flop because they try to twist the Bible and lead the church members astray. They rely on ignorance from the people and if they are ‘good’ and persuasive, they have a successful little (or big) cult… But with enough educated and thinking people out there, we can keep this kind of thing in check.


>>>>“However, as far as Christians go, they all interpet his words ( what or if there were any and I doubt it ) actually mean. Most often to the tune of some cash profit or control of the population. Organized religion discredits itself by discrediting each other”

***Interpreting the Bible isn’t as tough as a lot of you try to make it. Sure, there are certainly some tough and confusing areas, but 95% of it is clear as day. Most people just don’t really try. They read an old King James version with all the confusing language like Thou and Thee and Shalt – and just give up.

In my church, we all study the Bible together. The pastor teaches directly from the Bible and covers about a book per month (some books take several months). Then we have small groups of bible studies. We work through the confusing stuff and once in a while we just have to agree to disagree. But most often we can see that with some understanding the context (historical, cultural, biblical, etc), we reach the same conclusions.

There are many bad apples in the Christian world (historically and currently), but the fact is, if you REALLY understood all the Christianity has done historically and currently in promoting education, freedom, equality, helping the truly poor and sick, etc etc it would surprise you.

As far as ‘organized religion’ goes, just keep in mind that the Christian church is made up of the church members from all walks of life. Christianity is about individuals coming together for a common cause – to serve as Christ served. But it is easy and common for church leaders (many who start out with good intentions) to get caught up in the power, money, control, etc. This is one reason I like that there are so many various denominations (and non-denominational) churches in the world. If we all had only one choice – like in the times when the Roman Catholic Church was the only choice, there would be way too much room for mass corruption, gov’t control\manipulation, etc.

Not to you, maybe.