Link to the story hereShooting Near Thurston Co Jail

Yea, another shooting no big deal. Except they brought the victim to guess who's place of biz... Still no big deal, except that for 45 minutes the ER supervisor was asking why there was no LE around. There was a possible gang related shooting victim in the ER, the hosp security is unarmed, the shooter left the scene in a car, and everyone in town knows that the 'other' ER has only 8 beds.

Well almost everyone knows that, except the chunky plainclothes detective who finally showed up. He said "Well he [the victim] could have been taken to Capital Medical". I don't know how to respectfully respond to that. He might as well have suggested the victim was taken to the urgent care center at the downtown mall.

I've worked in ER's in San Bernadino, Riverside, Boise ID, Meridian ID, and now Oly. Whether it was big city San Berdoo, or suburban Boise, if we had a shooting victim in the ED we always had LE around in case someone showed up to cause more trouble. Usually the situation was we didn't need them around for more than a couple of hours. But never did we have to ask.

If any of those officers in those other towns had taken a hit, I'd rip out my own kidney on the spot if thats what he needed. They had my back, and in return it was the unspoken Grand Rule, you dropped everything to take care of an injured officer.

It doesn't change how I'd take care of a local OPD. they would receive the best possible care, regardless of the effort they had previously shown for the welfare of my coworkers, but I'll be tasting my bile while I do it.

And one of the reasons we were told no one could come was that they had the suspect contained, but not in custody, near the jail in Olympia where the shooting occured . Last I heard, the shooter was on the loose.

Thanks Oly, I can't wait to see ya.

I'm not the only one that's pissed, all the staff are furious. None of the nurses who also work or have worked at Tacoma General, Swedish, or Harborview ever saw such disinterest in the local PD for the safety of the hospital staff.

Guess what? Nothing will change until a staff person is killed. I tried causing a fuss 2 years ago, and little happened. Since then we've had staff members stabbed, ribs broken, fingers dislocated, and a nurse was on medical leave for 2 months after she was pushed to the ground by a patient and went into premature labor. Almost all of the assaults were never prosecuted.

I sat down and talked with Lt Kosta's from Oly PD about this for an hour. Basically he said it's the hospitals obligation to provide security and to call them after the crime has happened. So we call them after someone goes postal, but not until they pull the trigger.

And I am singling out O-town PD. We work with a bazillion other LE agencies, and rarely have problemo uno. Even the one state trooper I've got my eye out for is by all reputation a decent guy who dropped the ball, and the offending cadet is probably on his way to being invited to quit. The only LE dept we've consistently had trouble with not just with responding to calls, but also with dumping their violent suspects in our wait area and then leaving, is OPD. I can't imagine the whole dept has a cumulative brain tumor, but hey quantum physics allows for such things I suppose.

Well since the guy ended up there because of a crime, that was already commited, I would think a minimum of one officer would be in order, just in case. After all, we have 3 to 5 on the ferry dock here for just in case, and no crime has been commited. Seems a little goofy, but of course shooting crimes almost always end with a complete predictable lack of drama.

What do you expect in a town where all those abandoned buildings that used to be on the waterfront miraculously spontaneously combusted right before those multi-million hotels and apartments were built...all were officially declared "accidental."

A Small town of 42,000 that has more Heroin and Coke flowing freely than many major cities...

I guess it's a 'hands off' approach.

a place where a business can have a break-in, a cop arrive on the scene and declare it secure...because the tweeker busted out a lower window, pushed the a dumpster up next to it, and the cop never even got out of his car, while the crook was inside stealing stuff.

I think it is symptomatic of a town council that believes their police need to be checked, and the dropped out, burned out drug freaks rule.

That was actually a county case although other agencies assisted. I wasn't there, but it sounds like it was total chaos at first with a lot of mis-information being fed to LE. As to why no one responded immediately to the hospital to provide security on the victim, I cannot say. I speculate that they might have had their hands full at first. I do know that they provided a uniformed officer eventually. Vince, sorry it gave you a negative impression of the local cops. Most of them are good, hard working, dedicated people. Just like ER nurses.

Goinfishin,

Thanks for responding. Oh it didn't give us any new negative impression of the local city PD. PSPH has the worst working relationship between a cities main ER and its city PD. I've met with Lt Kostas, the Gold Team leader OPD leader for over an hour discussing lack of response from them. I've written to the city council, to the city manager, I've talked with individual officers. I'm not sure why, but among OPD supervisors especially, the sentiment I receive is that since we have hospital security they don't need to waste their time answering our calls. That attitude has filtered down to the guys on shift. They'll dump violent prisoners that the jail doesn't want, and somehow convinces a judge to release, in our ED, and then not respond for help when that person becomes combative.

If you want to see an ER charge nurse go from 0-60 in about 2 seconds ask them nicely if they feel Oly PD is supportive of their work. I'd say we have NO troubles with any other LE agency except them. They did send a marked unit to sit outside the ambulance bay after probably 10 calls to dispatch.

I won't disparage a public agency, especially a LE agency, until I've exhausted all other options. Its the reason I sit on the WDFW Enforcement committee and don't trash talk about them here. And not every OPD officer sucks. Some of them admit there is a problem, and they will also try and help where and when they can. And I've had an OPD Sgt spend quite a bit of time assisting me on how to try and get things changed. It should be telling though that he didn't ever want his name mentioned.

We know who has our backs. And if your one of them, I'll still gladly rip out one of my own kidneys for you if you need it.

VHawk

In Boise, the Cops don't take people to the E.R, they take them to the Mortuary. Just this year alone there have been 6 fatal cop shootings, and who knows how many shots fired. The Dec 18th incident involving the 16 year old kid was disturbing. Instead of talking to the kid ( who had taken a WW II gun off the wall .. that was unloaded and in fact did not even have shells for it ) got blasted as he was walking down the middle of the street because the gun had a bayonet on it ..????

The one from day before yesterday is also odd. Instead of talking with the guy, they simply went into the house, pushed the issue and wound up shooting him. You mess with the law in this valley and your gonna wind up on a slab.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/235/story/84147.html

I'm coming closer to the conclusion that Olympia is a run-down shiathole run by morons and crooks. I mean, fer chrissake,Its the capitol city and the town's children have to play in The State's fountain on hot summer days because the City is too thick to install a municipal pool. Even Chehalis has a public pool. Centralia has two. Everytime I travel, even to filthy 3rd world cesspools, I see towns with nicer Central Districts and better planning than Oly.

Half of the Olympia City Council has thier heads up thier asses over thier pet Hippie Causes, the other half is bent on getting thier personal kickback project approved.

At least Olympia is a nuclear free zone.

I beleive that your problem, Vince, is symbolic of all the LE around here. My own experiences include having them almost break into my house at 2 am because they didn't look at the address, refusing to proscute fraud cases ( the perpetrator simply walked out the door and cashed $10,000+ in checks made out to me),waiting a 1/2 hour with a drunk I got stopped until they showed up (over 20 calls to 911 they told me while he was driving and I had to finally wave down an officer on patrol who sat and waited for the State Patrol and finally, refusing to show up to a drive by shooting in my front yard. In the driveby they finally showed up a 2 hours and multiple yelling calls later. I pointed out the house they shot at and asked them to do a welfare check, as most likely they were in there loading there guns. They refused and drove off without even looking around for a victim. Of course I can't say they were related, but a couple of hours later, there was a fatal gang shooting at a party a short distance away.

But, the most telling thing.... In the Tacoma City Court House, they have security checks like the airport. Walk in the door, and there is the Tacoma Police desk, the only armed personnel, behind bullet proof plexy glass. Or, after an officer was shot in Seattle, the police chief coming out and saying, "When it is one of ours, it is different, we will catch this guy." Really, so it wouldn't matter as much if they had just mowed down an innocent, unarmed civilian?"

Like most government officials, LE seems to have become just self serving. Write enough tickets to pay our salary, show up enough to let people see us, and do the absolute mimimum possible.

Vince, I think you are probably barking up the wrong tree. I would try to get my co-workers to sign a petition insisting the hospital get armed security. Then, next time an officer shows up with an injury, I would sit his but in the ER forever. When he or she finally complains, I would simply point out they most certianly don't jump for you, why should you go out of the way for them.

LE, in my opinion, feels above you and me. Don't believe it? Watch what happens when an officer calls in a need for help. Literally watched 25 or more officers from 3 or 4 districts in less than 4 minutes. Total overkill. I even heard the officer involved admitting to a college he was a little embarrassed. Now, I won't say they shouldn't have come but if I had called in the same sitution they would have laughed at me.

We need LE that will follow traffic laws. That will go into a building putting their life at risk if they know an unarmed citizen is a risk. That doesn't get awards for doing their job, but only when they exceed it. That doesn't complain about only making 60K + with benefits, a retirement plan that rocks.

I know I am going to get flamed, but we need LE that is serving, not self-serving. Since that isn't going to happen soon, Vince, start showing up to work with a gun on your hip and let the hospital adminstration deal with the problem.

Not to be an a$$, but ummm, what's this got to do with fishing???

Thought the "Is There Life Beyond Fishing?" board is for stuff like this.

the guy that was shot is a jail inmate so should have been under guard anyway let a lone under protection

No, you're not an ass. It has nothing to do with fishing. Just gotta wait until one of the mods moves it to the appropriate board.

I'd happily be an Admin again if all I did was housework chores.

I pretty much gave up moderating for content. That got old, quick.

It's the constant PM's of whining, crying, complaining and having to hold a "higher standard" when I post is what killed me.

"Higher Standards"? Me? Yeah, as if.

If can't get down and roll in the dirt in the trenches with the rest of you, what is the point? I like to jab and spar. Makes the board more fun and keeps people on their toes.

Did I say I had TWO bags of shrimp for you? I really meant ONE.

Someone has to be an a$$hole..er...I mean power junkie. Might as well be me!

Naw.

I rarely ever edited people. Just the occasional personal attack or a swear word that missed the filter.

Or, in the case of Stam, just when I was being Power Hungry and wanted to mess with someone all in good fun.

I'd mess with Stam now, but my damn "Edit Stam's Post" button won't work for me.

Heck, even as an Mod I got edited by another Mod. Heh.

That car was bound to crash.

I like Sol.

<insert kissing arse-cheeck gremlin here>

OK, time to rant again. Front headline of section B in the Tacoma Tribune today. Detective"s house hit in driveby. Article states it was a probably a stray aimed at a gang house nearby. Investigation underway. $1000 reward by crimestoppers. Wow, this is in the same neighborhood, about 1 mile from me. Wonder why they wouldn't even show up when the shooting was at my house. I even found a shell in my driveway. You should have seen the look of disgust from the officer I made come and pick it up. He looked at me like an idiot when I told him it was from the driveby last night, "what drive by?" Oh, well, have a good day, " as he drove off as quickly as he could.

Here goes for the wanna beeeeees

Krijack your case sounds outrageous... and I work in the same ER as Vince and agree with most everything he's said about OPD and particularly this shooting yesterday...
BUT I would not paint all LE with that same brush as you seem to. Given your experiences I certainly understand your contempt, but remember its only based on your experiences. How much do you really know about the other side. Do you have any personal friends/ family in law enforcement. Have any idea what the divorce rate is? It's not because they lead happy lives, in posh neighborhoods, cashing in huge paychecks and taking early retirement to enjoy their rockin benefits. Your talking about people just like us, doing a job that makes them a target for complaints, bitching and yes bullets all while under a microscope. They are forced to see and expect the worse from all humanity. My father is a retired cop. We can be walking in Disneyland, and do you know what he sees? He sees a crowd and is trying to figure out who could be trying to pick our pockets, or kidnap his grandkids to then rape and kill them. And do you know why he's not just being paranoid, because he has seen it happen to families no different to us. They make deciscions good and bad, with limited information that are constantly dissected by monday morning quarterbacks. And rarely do they get acknowledgement for just "doing their job." Yeah there are some "bad" cops and others that are a little too enamored with their authority. But unlike you, I do not think they are the majority.
I believe on the whole law enforcement performs a extremely stressful and thankless job, and that they do it for the most part with integrity, courage and honor... and also for the most part without acknowledgement. I agree with everything that Vince has observed with OPD though and can't explain any of their agregious behavior or attitudes toward protecting our hospital staff. I applaud the effort he's gone through and continues to struggle with to understand and work with them to change the problem/ behavior. But I will never let an injured officer sit "forever" until they complain just to make a point... and I will still, as Vince says, 'rip out my own kidney' to help an officer.

Dumb luck,
Yes I do have friends that are LE.
For some reason I seem to get myself into situations that are unusual. I have seen a shooting, been next to my brother when an officer threatened his life, got a life saving award for heroism, watched an officer get his but tossed around (the perpetrator ran when we stopped), had officers run past us to get away from a mob, been mugged then yelled at by the cops for having actually called it in, had the cops beating at my door about to break it in because they had the wrong address, been arrested wrongly, been tossed in the back of a cop car more than once for no reason, and believe it or not that is just a start.

That said, Do you let the officers get helped ahead of others. If I come in with a gash and they come in a half hour later, who are you going to stitch up first. My guess is that the LE get helped first. If that is the case, that is what I mean by waiting, is simply not bowing down to them and putting them at the top of the list. In other words, tell them to sit and wait with the rest of us. Would you rip out your own kidney to help me? If not, then why not. You have no idea what my life is worth or how much I have done for humanity any more than you know if that officer is a child molestor or wife killer (Past Sheriff and ranking Tacoma officer for the first and Tacoma Chief for the second).

I'd rip out a testicle for you Krijack. It just might not be my testicle though.

I'll tell you my big regret is that I didn't focus my anger and attention on the OPD leadership. We do have some good officers that we work with on a regular basis from that department.

Here's a quote that I do believe comes right near the top of OPD Brass, Lt Kostas. It was NOT signed by Kostas, but was posted "ANONYMOUSLY" AKA a chickencrap post.

Some of the phrases are exactly as he spoke them to me 2 summers ago at our hour long meeting. This is from the blog on the Olympian online...

I submitted it for your veiwing pleasure in its entirety. Nothing out of context.

" Okay, NOBODY said these were "shortcomings of the ER"... and I think Providence should look at their inadequate security measures(your definitions here, not mine) but why is it OPD that gets the heat when your own facility doesn't meet your percieved safety standards? Why are you and your co-workers not "venting" your frustrations to your administrator... call him, email him, hell... call The Olympian... but what makes this an OPD problem? It certainly seems like a MAJOR safety issue for the staff... nobody could argue that... but why does an already taxed and short staffed police department have to clean up the messes for an agency the size of Providence? St. Peters is the only level 1 trama center in this area... the staff are all well trained and professional (at least has been my experience thus far)... but why should the tax payers have to foot the bill when they make PLENTY of profit each year to a)train and b)hire out security. It's not a law enforcement problem... it's a Providence problem, and if I were you, and it is as bad as you say and you are in danger as frequently as you claim, I would be making myself available to industry in one of the many fine cities in the area! Leave the cops alone... they aren't security officers, mental health counselors, or baby sitters... they are police officers and MY tax dollars pay them to do the job they are doing out on the streets and in the community... not running to SPH everytime there is a problem in the ER!"



... not running to SPH everytime there is a problem in the ER!"
Would those problems include taking gunshot victims and worrying about if the shooter is going to show up? Silly me.

If it matters to anyone...dispatch told me last night when I went in there that it only took 13 minutes to get a detective there. Yes, he was armed.

I don't why I get ever get sucked into these threads...There is inevitably the one or two persons who have that unfortunate run of bad luck when it comes to experiences with the cops. I am sure they were unfairly targeted and their own actions had absolutely no bearing on what happened. I have to say that the majority of criminals I have dealt with (and believe me, there has been every kind you can imagine in 23 years) took some responsiblity for their actions. I'll tell you something else, if I drive up and someone starts with being an A$$ to me, I might just drive off too if he/she doesn't kennel up. Tell you a story about that, once upon a time a deputy went to a call for a noise disturbance. When he got there, the guy who called it in became an ass and refused to come to the door. He in fact yelled at the deputy to "f-off, you got a warrant?". Well, the deputy wasn't willing to spend anymore time on an a$$ like that and went back to his car. As he was sitting getting ready to drive off, Mr. Sunshine decides he now needs the police and approaches the partol car and yells that he wants to talk to him. The deputy rolls the window down ever so slightly and replies "you got a warrant?" and drives away.

There is a kind of honor and mutual respect even, if you will, between hard core cons and the cops. I mean they know they are bad and what they are, but they know we have a job in catching them. It's rarely personal. It's only the punks on both sides that are the exceptions (cops and crooks both) . The less able one is to take any repsonsibility for anything they do, because, "BY GOD, the laws are BS" , the more likely they will be unhappy when that authority figure holds them accountable.

You don't like society's laws?

The solution is abide by them (the big ones that is) or accept that you WILL be held accountable at some point. Here's an example-

As you can imagine, some men are real control freaks with their significant others. This often evolves into control of who she talks to, where she can go, her household tasks, and very often every aspect of her life. It is very close to human bondage (the bad kind).

Now you get a guy like me that finally gets called because the lid finally blows and she or someone calls us. The first thing that happens is the guy usually tries to get us to agree she is really just emotional and out of control and he was just trying to "calm things down" when he hit her. When that doesn't work, it often gets ugly when he realizes that he can't control it now and that we have stepped in and his freedom and ability to manipulate is taken away.

This is just one of the services we provide!! lol.... And guess what? I'll bet when he tells the story later, he'll naturally spin it to where he is the victim and the stupid cops just took her side. You know what? I 'll bet I can tell you my side on any given situation and my spin will always make it sound like I am a victim.

And something else you should know, even after 23 years of the worst of people and people at their worst, I still like folks in general.

I dont whine because people in general lie to us, disrespect us, and are extremely self centered. I knew that coming into the job. The good stuff is the people you work with, the humor in all the wierd stuff you see and deal with, and getting to help the folks who are truly victims. I hope that this helps.....

Still seems odd to me that our charge nurse, nor the house supervisor seemed to know that there was any law enforcement present. I'm not saying your a liar John, because I know better, I am saying there was an intense breakdown of communication. I can accept that the situation was chaotic. If this had happened in any other city I had worked in previously, nobody would have gotten too upset. But taken in the context of the lack of support we had received previously from OPD, we were already edgy. The irony of Costas complaints about how city taxes shouldn't be used to provide PSPH security is that OPD informally has used our ED as a back up jail facility.
I am defensive, about the whole situation. We've had an unbelievable amount of assaults against the ER nurses that go unnoticed, it's freakin shocking. I work with 80% middle aged or older women, who are expected to deal with alot of the same population of drunks, and violent offenders that city PD deals with, except without the body armor, the gun, or the knowledge that they are supported by anybody except their immediate coworkers.
I'm not speaking up because I am in mortal fear for my own safety, that's cowardice. I am speaking up because I genuinely feel one of my coworkers is going to be killed if there isn't better cooperation with the city PD.

Let me repeat this, this is important enough to me, that I have put my employment at jeopardy, I have used my own name and identity in my posts, because I feel that one of my coworkers will be killed if there is not better cooperation. I have risked alienating my friends in law enforcement, because I genuinely feel that my coworkers are at risk of getting murdered. I don't think that this particular incident had the capacity to lead to that kind of tragedy, but the lack of communication and response will eventually lead to something terrible happening.

I invite any LE officers to talk with the staff nurses in the ER about the concerns I've mentioned.

This is not about the reputation of the City of Olympia, not about the reputation of OPD, nor of TCSO, the primary concern should not be about anybody's reputation, it should be about safety. If people want to think I'm an ahole for being protective of the women I work with, then color my sphincter brown. But that whole primary concern of mine, my coworkers safety, has gotten lost in the argument. And no health system can deal with violent offenders safely without a working partnership with local LE.

Vince

Vince,
I don't mean to minimize your concerns, for they are completely legitimate. I was responding to the inevitiable cop bashing by others that get on these threads to express their opinions.

I just wanted you to know that I did check and was told that by a dispatcher. I always encourage good relations with you guys, last thing I need is bad blood when I come in with a sucking chest wound...lol

Besides, we'll probably be fishing together again when I get my boat back in the water soon.

Goinfishin,

Gotcha, I wasn't sure who you were replying to. Jess and I both would love to fish with you again. I'd also like to talk about our charge nurses having some written protocol/policy or some written guidance on what to expect, and what we are responsible for, and who should be our contact person when we are part of an incident like this. If TCSO and Lacey PD can make arrangements with PSPH, then having other agencies step in line will be easier. It'll also be easier to go to the PSPH admin and ask for our own policy changes with the cooperation (pressure) of regional agencies.

Maybe something to think about for later this summer as we fish and wonder why the coho don't bite.

And apologies again to good officers like Nutter who do a great job with OPD. I shouldn't have swept everyone with the same dirty broom.

Vhawk

A lack of empathy. Thats what I see in the letter you got Vince. If the writers wife or mother was working with you, the response would probably be different. Classic defense mechanism, in my opinion, when you feel fustrated and can't do what you want to. Same reason people change the channel when we see starving kids in Africa.
Gone Fishin demonstrates this lack of empathy when he uses his sarcasm to incinuate that I deserve some of what happened to me. Kind of like the officers in the court house that sit behind the bullet proof plexy glass with their guns and watch us walk around, unarmed.
I truely do care about your situation Vince. You want to help, then kind of get blamed for doing it. I also understand the officers feelings about not being able to be everywhere. They show up for you and then I get pissed at them for not showing up. In the end you probably will have to get the hospital to beef security. Is it right, no... Until people are willing to pay more in taxes they will just have to pay a whole lot more for hospital care. In the end, I think you want what I want Vince, a little respect and empathy, and most of all to feel safe.

Krijack,


I'd need therapy if I had all that crap happen to me, that you went thru. Sorry about that. And I appreciate your support.

Now, as far as special treatment, I've fished with Goingfishin and you've pegged him wrong. I saw him bring his kid into the ER once. When I called over to him to tell him I had a room for his kid he said to me, "I hope your not cutting us ahead of these other sick people". We'll truth is, I asked a Doc that was not taking anymore patients 'cause his shift was almost over to take one more. It didn't displace anybody, and it took me 5 minutes to get IV's going and fluids in, which was the majority of treatment. I also know that if I needed help, regardless of how he is treated in the ER, he'd do whatever he could. It's impossible to provide care for the patients we deal with, without the cooperation of law enforcement.

And for the most part Thurston Co Sheriffs Dept will go farther out of their way for the general public then would ever be expected. They'll stick around to watch violent patients that they bring in for eval's. Not every LE dept does. And they get involved in some pretty dramatic rescues as well, alot of which don't make the news.
Lacey has some great officers as well, unfortunatly although I can picture their faces, I can't remember their names.

Considering that I'll rip into any LE department if I think they are screwing up big time, I'd hope that when I say a group of guys is doing a good job that it would mean something.

VHawk