Oregonian

" Todd, what do you think about the idea of banning/controlling gun ownership as a means to reduce crime ?"




" I should offer my opinion first I guess, I think it's ridiculous...

I would rather see armed self defense taught in school at about 7th grade and encourage all responsible citizens to carry a weapon upon completion of that training..."




Todd

Registered: 03-08-1999
Posts: 6503
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA Honestly, I don't think all that much about it at all...no one's banned my guns, and I doubt they will.

I think the best way to control gun deaths (which are so grossly out of step with the rest of the world that it's not even funny, though we never seem to like to talk about that) is to do a few things...

1. Up the penalties...considerably...for committing a crime with a gun.

2. Up the penalties...considerably...for the guy who negligently allowed another to commit a crime, or an injury, with his own gun.

3. Up the penalties...considerably...for carrying a firearm while drinking or doing drugs.

4. Up the penalties...considerably...for people who accidentally shoot people or property.

These should be zero tolerance laws...a dumbass like Dick Cheney should NEVER be allowed to purchase a hunting license, much less carry a weapon...ever again. He has his chance, and he committed the worst offense that gun owner can ever, ever commit...he didn't look where he was shooting.

Zero tolerance.

People are scared of the criminals out there with guns, so that's why they feel the need to carry one with them, wherever they go? Fine...assauge their fear by sending those caught committing gun crimes up the river for a looonngg time, and for those who are busted during gun crimes, they never get to own a gun again.

That will reduce the amount of gun-toting criminals that are out there.

This divergent topic brings a few things to mind...first, here we are talking about something else...again...when the topic is the lies that Palin and McSame are telling.

Second...an addition to the list a couple of posts ago...a wingnut is also someone who truly believes that Democrats want to take all your guns away, that Republicans do not want to restrict your gun use/ownership, and that carrying an AK-47 to the ice cream shop should be protected by the Constitution.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team "Drift Boat Veterans for Truth"

Untra isn't a place, it's a State of Mind.

Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote Notify Email Post


#453754 - 52 minutes 2 seconds ago Re: Flat out Lying, A Republican Tradition [Re: Todd]
willametteriveroutlaw
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 10-26-2002
Posts: 243
Loc: Salem OR Todd,
May of those laws exist, they do little good without enforcement and prison space.
_________________________
Bigot(noun): Anyone a liberal disagress with. *Also see: Fascist.


Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote Notify Email Post


#453757 - 45 minutes 30 seconds ago Re: Flat out Lying, A Republican Tradition [Re: willametteriveroutlaw]
Todd
River Nutrients

Registered: 03-08-1999
Posts: 6503
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA ...I agree, which is why we need to stop sending thousands of kids to jail for stupid marijuana offenses.

Fish on...

Todd

The "penalty" for trying to perpetrate a violent crime should be several bullets in the chest/head from the victims gun, a more swift and just punishment can not be had.


I'm not sure why you want to be so extreme on the treatment of accidental shootings, do you also imply that a person who accidentally hurts a person with a car never be allowed to drive again ? Would that expose an irrational fear of automobiles ?

McCain is to old and senile to have a gun or be near the button controlling our nukes.

I wasn't asking in reference to McCain vs Obama, but Todd seems to think gun control is a silly issue only "RWWJ's" are interested in (affraid of).

I was pretty frustrated by "the ban" a few years ago when it was against the law to buy/sell 25 round magazines for the Ruger 10/22, I have a legitimate inyerest in shooting my 10/22, and for some applications the 25 round magazine is tits. Violent crime may have dropped off dramaticly during "the ban", but it would be hard for me to tell from where I live...

Post 1000 !
LOL

I think gun control issues are a concern for everyone, including everyone who owns guns...and believe it or not, not just right wingers own guns.

Right wingers allow themselves the fantasy that someone who could actually make it happen wants to ban all their guns...that fantasy is owned, bought, and sold by the whackjobs at the NRA.

No one has the power to do it, of any political stripe...it's just a trigger issue to get people to vote for Republicans, even though who gets that particular office will have no effect whatsoever on gun ownership or gun use rights.

Why be hard on people who negligently shoot someone or something, or negligently leaves their gun around so someone else can do it with their gun?

Because the stakes are too high to allow those "mistakes" to happen.

On the extreme ends...if someone has their gun in a safe, unloaded, and someone busts it open with a blowtorch, steals the gun and ammo, and goes outside and shoots a cop, it's hard to blame that on the gunowner.

On the other hand, if a gunowner leaves a loaded firearm on the kitchen table, near an open window, and goes out to a bar to buy crack and his twice convicted felon cousin, who lives in the house, too, takes it and shoots up the pre-school next door, then the gunowner should burn right next to his cracked up cousin.

For hunters, though I think this is a pretty tangential issue to 'gun control' proper, you screw up and shoot somebody, you're done. Sorry...but me and my kids and my friend and their kids are out there, too.

There aren't any small accidents when someone is accidentally shot, unlike the differences between a fender bender because you weren't paying attention at a stop sign (a small accident) and running a bus off the road because you're engaged in boozed up road rage (not an accident at all).

Fish on...

Todd

So not only ban a person from driving for life if they hurt someone in an at fault traffic accident, also ban the owner from driving for life if a thief does the same in a stolen car ? Wow, you aren't as extreme as I thought... <grin>


Can we agree that there would probably be less violent crime (a lot less) if upwards of 90% of the population was properly trained and armed ?


You know an armed society is a polite society...

I'm pretty sure I didn't say anything at all like that...

Fish on...

Todd

If you'll punish me for what a thief does with my gun after he steals it, then wouldn't the next logical step be to punish me for other crimes committed with other items stolen from me ? I think they call it progressive...

Did you read this?

"On the extreme ends...if someone has their gun in a safe, unloaded, and someone busts it open with a blowtorch, steals the gun and ammo, and goes outside and shoots a cop, it's hard to blame that on the gunowner.

On the other hand, if a gunowner leaves a loaded firearm on the kitchen table, near an open window, and goes out to a bar to buy crack and his twice convicted felon cousin, who lives in the house, too, takes it and shoots up the pre-school next door, then the gunowner should burn right next to his cracked up cousin."

I'm saying you do not punish the first guy...he was responsible. The second guy, however, is almost as guilty as the thief...

Fish on...

Todd

Meanwhile back at the ranch, their are a lot of people who claim to be liberal politicly who think our society needs to outlaw private gun ownership, they seem to think we would all be safer at night if only the military and police had guns, and they think a bunch of legislation can bring that about in an orderly and efficient manner...


As to the NRA, all they want is money, they don't ever want the debate over gun control to be over because they would be out of a job. Screw the N.R.A., we seem to agree that they are part of the problem.

If the penalties were Draconian, I think you'd see less gun crime. Use a gun in the commission of a crime, ANY crime, and face life imprisonment. Use a gun to kill someone, and face the death penalty. Mandatory, no sentencing guidelines.........which is something I'm normally against.

And make room in the prisons using whatever means necessary.........my favored way would be to release non-violent drug offenders first.

The numbers of people killed in hunting accidents is miniscule. I'm sure the families of those accidently shot may think it's a very important issue, but I bet more people are killed by their bathtub than by accidental hunting-related shootings.

And before you say you want to see 90% of the population packing, go drive around town for 20 minutes and look at the idiotic crap people are doing with their cars. I'm not sure I want those same goats packing. You'd just be trading crime-related shootings for accidental shootings by idiots who shouldn't have a crayon in their hands, let alone a firearm.

I think forced gun ownership is as shortshighted as forced gun bans.

I believe I said encouraged, not forced, and I'm sure I specified 90% of "properly trained responsible citizens" too...

The part that I think should be more or less forced is the self defense training. Many of you probably know that much of self defense is related to common sense and situational awareness, hard to go wrong teaching some fundamentals there.

People are supposedly "properly trained" to drive.........and yet they routinely fail to perform the task correctly. I think it's because many of them are a couple samiches shy of a picnic.

I think Col. Jeff Cooper said something about a man buying a gun being armed about like a man buying a piano is a musician...

The weapon is between your ears, the gun is a tool.

I hadn't heard that one before. Good one.

Everyone, including myself, needs to read Jeff Cooper. I am embarrassed to admit that I haven't read much of his stuff, mostly articles, but a book titled "To Ride, Shoot Strait, and Speak the Truth" couldn't be all bad...

True that...and the unfortunate truth is that a goodly percentage of humans are walking around unarmed...and I don't mean without a gun.

Remember, 50% of us are of less than average intelligence.

Fish on...

Todd

And of that 50%, how many are former attorneys? Your arguments Counselor?

98,001.