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#540036 - 09/22/09 07:12 PM Re: Is this what Obamacare would look like? [Re: 4Salt]
IrishRogue Offline
Poon it! Poon it! Poon it!

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 1714
Loc: Yarrow Point
Because it is the opposite of what the Democratic President wants.

For both parties, defeating the other party has become more important than solving problems. It sucks.
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The charm of fishing is that it is the pursuit of what is elusive but attainable, a perpetual series of occasions for hope. -John Buchan

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#540037 - 09/22/09 07:13 PM Re: Is this what Obamacare would look like? [Re: 4Salt]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13481
4-Salt,

Cuz right wingers are pro-business even if it's against their self interest. "What's good for General Bullmoose is good for the USA!" Also, they may hold stock in a profitable insurance company, or sit on the Board of Directors of one, etc. Or they could just be irrational and stupid. Remember, always check out the easiest explanation first.

Sg

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#540038 - 09/22/09 07:14 PM Re: Is this what Obamacare would look like? [Re: Dan S.]
ISO Chrome
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Dan S.
Nobody wants to deliver news like that.............but it's part of the deal.
My dad used to talk about how you deliver the uncomfortable news that someone has cancer, and won't be around for long. He said it was about the hardest part of his job to deliver news nobody ever wanted to hear.
But let's be honest...........news like this is delivered every day. Nobody WANTS to do it, but they HAVE TO do it.


Yes, it does get delivered every day. Tomorrow we find out if my 76 yo. dad has Leukemia..odds are high that he does, but I'll be damned if I'll accept it till all the test results are in.

BTW, I DO understand cost/benefit. With adults we can [generally] make a rational decision..ie: "Is it worth going through the treatment?"

My dad's already decided he will not undergo chemo and radiation. Not because of money, but just because he's decided that at his age he would prefer not to go through all that misery. Fortunately, there is another option that has presented itself that is worth a shot.

ISO

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#540047 - 09/22/09 07:45 PM Re: Is this what Obamacare would look like? [Re: ]
4Salt Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/07/00
Posts: 2955
Loc: Lynnwood, WA
I can understand the wealthy, investor-class, corporatist Republicans supporting the insurance oligopoly Salmo.

I was thinkin' more of the regular schmo, high school educated, lower middle-class folk that showed up at the healthcare town halls carryin' "Obama is Hitler" signs... and tellin' the Congress people, "keep the government outta my Medicare"!

There is a real disconnect there...

Mike... I wish your dad well.
_________________________
A day late and a dollar short...

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#540059 - 09/22/09 08:08 PM Re: Is this what Obamacare would look like? [Re: 4Salt]
hohbomb73 Offline
D.E.A

Registered: 04/02/06
Posts: 1672
Loc: in da hood
Seems like ALL Republicans think they are the "wealthy, investor class, corporatist"(s)...
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So save me your sorries, I'm raising an army...

Fortes Fortuna Adiuvat.





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#540067 - 09/22/09 08:32 PM Re: Is this what Obamacare would look like? [Re: Salmo g.]
RowVsWade Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 3359
Loc: Island Time
Originally Posted By: Salmo g.
4-Salt,

Cuz right wingers are pro-business even if it's against their self interest. "What's good for General Bullmoose is good for the USA!" Also, they may hold stock in a profitable insurance company, or sit on the Board of Directors of one, etc. Or they could just be irrational and stupid. Remember, always check out the easiest explanation first.

Sg


Apparently you are so self-absorbed with dillusions of grandeur to realize that YOU are the one thinking about human life as a dollar sign $$$$$$$$.........completely antithetical to your post.

But blame the corporations always goes over well with the stupid and the democrats....but I repeat myself.
_________________________
"...the pool hall I loved as a kid is now a 7-11..."

If you don't like our prices bring your wife down and we'll dicker.

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#540069 - 09/22/09 08:40 PM Re: Is this what Obamacare would look like? [Re: ]
Keta Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 03/05/00
Posts: 1083
Originally Posted By: Hankster
I think the "regular schmo...." people you were referring to are actually the Obama voters with the buyer's remorse.

Real Republicans wouldn't behave like the townhall folks you described.... grin


I'm pretty sure any "buyer's remorse" has it's roots in the perception that Obama hasn't pushed harder for single payer health care and we are not withdrawing from Iraq. He has not pushed the progressive agenda that he ran on hard enough.

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#540071 - 09/22/09 08:42 PM Re: Is this what Obamacare would look like? [Re: IrishRogue]
RowVsWade Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 3359
Loc: Island Time
Originally Posted By: IrishRogue
Ask yourself this question -- what magnitude earthquake could said bridge withstand as you drove across it. There absolutely *is* a point at which it'll collapse... Guaranteed. And a whole bunch of "Bridge DEATH PANEL members" made up some engineering guidelines for what reasonable bridge building standards are.

These are all life-and-death decisions, and the reason you make standards up in advance is so that the emotion of a singular situation doesn't cause you to constantly make bad decisions. This holds for bridge building, and for decisions about what extrordinary measures should be used to attempt to save individual lives.


But they still built the bridge...correct?

Or did they decide early in the planning stages that since it would eventually fail.....ahhh f.ck it.... it's gonna' break anyhow so we shouldn't waste any money on building it?
_________________________
"...the pool hall I loved as a kid is now a 7-11..."

If you don't like our prices bring your wife down and we'll dicker.

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#540082 - 09/22/09 09:02 PM Re: Is this what Obamacare would look like? [Re: ]
Keta Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 03/05/00
Posts: 1083
I didn't say anything about Afghanistan and if you pay attention to the news Obama is saying we don't need single payer to fix the system. I just read the article today. Just for the record I'm not a fan of Obama. IMHO the system weeds out any candidate might disturb the special relationship the big corporations and Wall Street have with our government, that is they own it.

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#540086 - 09/22/09 09:05 PM Re: Is this what Obamacare would look like? [Re: ]
4Salt Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/07/00
Posts: 2955
Loc: Lynnwood, WA
Yup! Congress is being SO stealthy in fact... they're writin' bills with no public option and mandated coverage that is nothin' but a pure giveaway to the insurance companies. eek2 help

All of this of course is a smokescreen to cover the REAL bill which is buried in the fine print on page 1143. zip

Yer a regular Sherlock Holmes for sleuthin' that out Hank! cowboy
_________________________
A day late and a dollar short...

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#540101 - 09/22/09 09:33 PM Re: Is this what Obamacare would look like? [Re: ]
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 16958
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
Originally Posted By: Hank
He's given responsibility to congress to write a healthcare bill.


Um, yeah.

That's the way it works, right?
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

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#540103 - 09/22/09 09:35 PM Re: Is this what Obamacare would look like? [Re: Dan S.]
Sol Duc Offline
April Fool

Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 15727
Are Red Herring Skanks ?
_________________________
He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.

- Albert Einstein.

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#540106 - 09/22/09 09:37 PM Re: Is this what Obamacare would look like? [Re: ]
Sol Duc Offline
April Fool

Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 15727
Hank, I think KK is referring to Red Label Herring. grin
_________________________
He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.

- Albert Einstein.

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#540107 - 09/22/09 09:38 PM Re: Is this what Obamacare would look like? [Re: ]
John Lee Hookum Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 2453
Loc: Area 51
Robo-Bartender

A popular bar had a new robotic bartender installed. A guy came in for a drink and the robot asked him, "What's your IQ"? The man replied, "130".
So the robot proceeded to make conversation about physics, astronomy, investments, insurance, and so on.
The man listened intently and thought, "This is really cool".

Another guy came in for a drink and the robot asked him, "What's your IQ?" The man responded, "100." So the robot started talking about the weather, football, baseball, action movies and so on. The man thought to himself, "Wow, this is really cool".

A third guy came into the bar. As with the others, the robot asked, "What's your IQ?" "I'm not too sure," the man replied, "but someone told me that it's about 70." "That's cool,' the robot said. "So, what's the Republican Party up to these days?
_________________________

Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of
Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter
of the gods.

-- Albert Einstein



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#540116 - 09/22/09 09:52 PM Re: Is this what Obamacare would look like? [Re: ]
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 16958
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
Um, yeah.

You're singing to the choir, my friend.

But I thought I remembered that Congress writes the laws, and the President either signs them, or vetoes them.

I've forgotten a lot of sh!t from school, though.
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

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#540130 - 09/22/09 10:58 PM Re: Is this what Obamacare would look like? [Re: Dan S.]
ParaLeaks Offline
WINNER

Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 10363
Loc: Olypen
I haven't been following along much, so maybe someone could fill me in.......

Who's still touting the "If you like your insurance plan you can keep it" spiel?

And the mandatory enrollment....how's that settling in?

How about the "risk pools make things cheaper" slant working out?

Here's what I think. If you don't have insurance now, you ain't gonna voluntarily buy it...even at a reduced rate, because you already spend all your money on other shlt. BUT you could end up with insurance anyway, because "I said so" and you will have to figure out how to readjust your monthly expenditures.....so screw you, you are now insured. Sorry it ain't gonna be free if you're working.....someone lied to you.

And if you are working and have insurance, if it is any kind of decent plan at all, you will lose in this deal....big time. Why? because your boss is not about to negotiate a deal to maintain the cost of your present plan when a cheaper one (and "cheaper" is a high point of negotiations now) is available. So "yes" you could keep your plan, but that's like saying, "Sure, you can afford a 747".....not for long, bud. So now that you no longer have the plan you used to, but have a similar, cheaper plan shared by millions more, you can count on longer delays for treatment, consultations, and every other thing associated with mass medical treatment. Oh, and many more mistakes as well....count on it. Happens any time there are assembly lines.

Remember KK saying how the wonderful, amazing risk pools could make the cost of insurance so much cheaper? Remember how I made the statement that risk pools are for normal participants.....not NEEDY participants? Hail, enter "mandatory enrollment" (were there not claims initially that this would not happen?)....to get money from those who don't need insurance because they are presently healthy and young (and perhaps foolish). But their money's good enough to fix Syphillis Sam's rotting appendage, or deliver Annie Squats M. Outs 12th nipple-hanger. And now neither has to wait for emergency care, they can just make an appointment for every ache, pain, cough, itch, or bump they encounter.

Same ol' story......no consequences for unacceptable choices. It's the Leftist way. No point in acting responsibly if their is no penalty for not.
A hand up is different than a hand out, but the line has been blurred by enabling do-gooders. Which isn't so bad by itself, but now they want me to pay for it. I say, chase your dream on your own damn nickel. Get a job and produce something, or starve in the gutter....your choice.


Ahhhhh smile
_________________________
Agendas kill truth.
If it's a crop, plant it.




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#540141 - 09/22/09 11:42 PM Re: Is this what Obamacare would look like? [Re: ]
Timber Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 05/27/00
Posts: 2447
Loc: Stumpy Acres
Originally Posted By: Kanektok Kid
Dan:

industry lobbyists should write the all the bills


grin





Nice rofl you and retoad like to call these errors out.. Funny shiit right there...
_________________________
If ya can't run with the big dogs stay on the porch!


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#540203 - 09/23/09 05:34 AM Re: Is this what Obamacare would look like? [Re: ]
ParaLeaks Offline
WINNER

Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 10363
Loc: Olypen
bwp.....I never said that young people shouldn't buy insurance...hence the "foolish" remark. I implied that young people "think" they don't need insurance because they are young and bullet proof. And they are, for the most part (it worked for me). The point was that healthy people are forced to contribute to the health insurance "pie" in order for the cess pool....er risk pool to be viable.

As far as corruption in the health insurance game goes.....we don't disagree so much.....it exists big time and everybody knows it and something needs to be done about it.....

Me, I'd just cut their profit margin and audit the Hell out of them to make sure they comply......you know, the same way we do oil companies...... rolleyes

As far as your bride goes.....I couldn't be more saddened. You both have my sincerest hopes and will be included in my prayers.
_________________________
Agendas kill truth.
If it's a crop, plant it.




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#541396 - 09/28/09 10:45 AM Re: Is this what Obamacare would look like? [Re: ]
alanmikkelsen Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 209
Loc: St. Ignatius, MT
As a society, medical costs are one of the most vexing problems we face, and nothing in any of the health care/health insurance bills is going to do anything about that. Frankly, as a society, we are at war with death, and in every case, death always wins. We have medical care and procedures and procedures used in the last 3-6 months of life that are simply unaffordable and unsustainable as a society and these costs are what drive insurance costs for everyone. Until we accept the inevitablity of death in our lives, and adjust our attitudes accordingly, I don't see much change coming, despite all the hope I have......
_________________________
Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience

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#541527 - 09/28/09 10:09 PM Re: Is this what Obamacare would look like? [Re: alanmikkelsen]
Jhook Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 247
Loc: Columbia City
Blue water pro, truer words were never spoken. I've been battling cancer for close to four years now. It comes and goes. Went thru 8 weeks intense radiation. Now I'm told it has continued to increase but it is several years away from getting serious at the rate it is growing. But not a day goes by that I don't know it's there and think about it. I can only count the things I have been able to do with my life that most will never see or even attempt. So I feel lucky.

When I had surgery they gave me morphine in recovery. That stuff damn near killed me but it felt so good I didn't care. So my instructions are, if things get bad, give me morphine, lots of it! My doctor is very pragmatic and open with me.

We are lucky to have good insurance but I will never opt to hang on if things get bad. That is just plain selfish!

When I had the surgery the Doc told me if it had not been discovered I would not have made it 6 months. So I consider it all a bonus now.


Edited by Jhook (09/28/09 10:14 PM)
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Otherwise I'm retired!

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