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#570704 - 01/09/10 12:53 PM Re: Gill-net salmon fishing ban on ballot? [Re: grizz1]
Lucky Louie Offline
Carcass

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 2267
Originally Posted By: grizz1


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojwa9dnJJkg
Heres your theme song. Sing along WSC.


Edited by Lucky Louie (01/09/10 01:02 PM)
_________________________
The world will not be destroyed by those that are evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.- Albert Einstein

No you can’t have my rights---I’m still using them





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#570715 - 01/09/10 01:52 PM Re: Gill-net salmon fishing ban on ballot? [Re: Fast and Furious]
stlhdr1 Offline
BUCK NASTY!!

Registered: 01/26/00
Posts: 6312
Loc: Vancouver, WA
Originally Posted By: Lead Bouncer
.

You clowns could tear down every dam on the columbia and the netters would still kill more and more wild fish. Its the method. They killed 27,000,000 salmon in 24 years and the hatcheries could not keep up, let alone mother nature.


Where did you come up with that figure?

Is that another Cedar Creek hatchbox or the classic "mop up" statistic? rofl

Keith
_________________________
It's time to put the red rubber nose away, clown seasons over.


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#570721 - 01/09/10 02:20 PM Re: Gill-net salmon fishing ban on ballot? [Re: Somethingsmellsf]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Originally Posted By: Somethingsmellsf
With all of you "experts" on here I'm surprised that there are any problems with our marine resources at all, why did you let things get so bad before you decided not to do something?


Fishy


A lot of the brand new $25 experts have no idea how much they owe to those who have been working for our fish and our fisheries for over 40 years...think you have scraps now? You'd have been done before you even got a chance to start if it wasn't for them.

Fish and fishing advocacy didn't start three years ago when CCA came to town.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#570723 - 01/09/10 02:35 PM Re: Gill-net salmon fishing ban on ballot? [Re: Todd]
grizz1 Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 463
Very well said Todd...and thanks for the years you have put in without that $25

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#570724 - 01/09/10 02:36 PM Re: Gill-net salmon fishing ban on ballot? [Re: Castingpearls]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Originally Posted By: Castingpearls
Won't that just give sportfisherman a full season to fish over less hatchery fish due to the fact that the selective commercial fisheries will be able to stretch out impacts on wild fish, resulting in longer commercial seasons?

Still, the same number of wild fish are killed, but now more hatchery fish are taken. I just can't get past this detail.

Full season with less fish to go after?



Yes, that's the best case scenario...if opportunity means "go fishing", even if there are far less fish to fish for...then this is an excellent plan.

For the rest of us, not so much.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#570725 - 01/09/10 02:38 PM Re: Gill-net salmon fishing ban on ballot? [Re: ]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Originally Posted By: AuntyM
LB... you have to take the "gillnetters posing as sportfishermen" watch tonight. I have a dinner date with my sweety!

Have fun and don't do anything I wouldn't do.

rofl



The rest of us will be on the "fish and fishing advocates who can't tell their ass from their elbow" watch...

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#570734 - 01/09/10 03:27 PM Re: Gill-net salmon fishing ban on ballot? [Re: Todd]
Fast and Furious Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 3116
NET BAN INITIATIVE STIRS UP RHETORIC ON BOTH SIDES October 1999

Talk is heating up over an initiative on Washington's November ballot that would outlaw most commercial fishing by nets in state waters. The measure, known as Initiative 696, was written by sports fishing advocate Tom Nelson, editor of The Reel News, a monthly fishing publication based in Renton, Washington. Backers obtained 234,750 signatures to get the measure on the ballot. Election officials determined that 194,000 were valid--14,000 more than the minimum required by law.

I-696 would ban all non-tribal nets, commercial trolling except for reef nets, crab and shrimp pots and herring dip-bag nets in the state, which includes areas within three miles of the Washington coast.

Commercial
Fall bumper crop of political slogans
fishing interests are slowly coming together to fight Initiative 696, with bumper stickers appearing around Seattle's waterfront that say "I'm a fisherman, not a felon." If I-696 passes, net fishing would become a Class C felony, clouding the future of the proposed buy-back system for state commercial fishermen. The program was spelled out in the recent US/Canada agreement over salmon harvests between the two countries.

Commercial groups have the support of Gov. Gary Locke, the League of Women Voters, most mainstream environmental groups--including Greenpeace, the Sierra Club and the Washington Environmental Council--along with some sports groups like the Northwest Sportsfishing Industry Association and the Westport Charterboat Association.

All take issue with the draconian nature of the initiative and its harsh tone. According to the pro-initiative website, "the purpose of Initiative 696 is straightforward and simple--to stop the killing of endangered and threatened salmon, seabirds and sealife by removing commercial fishing nets from Washington waters. Nets are so deadly efficient that many Washington fishery stocks have been netted to near collapse. This has led to Endangered Species listings of many fish stocks and seabirds. State and federal leadership have failed to protect our marine resources. The burden now falls on the voters of Washington State. ESA listings and salmon recovery efforts have already cost the taxpayers millions of dollars in 1999. The expenses and liabilities will only grow unless we remove destructive nets from Washington waters."

Commercial interests say it boils down to nothing more than a fish allocation issue. If nets are banned, they say sports fishermen will get more fish to catch--mainly chinook and coho. Data from the Pacific Fishery Management Council shows that sporties in Puget Sound already catch considerably more chinook and coho than the commercial sector.

The Puget Sound sports sector caught more than 58,000 chinook in 1997, the last year for which recreational catch figures are available, whereas non-treaty commercials caught only 21,600. As for coho, sporties boated 130,000 fish, while non-treaty commercials caught only 9,600. Treaty fishermen (the Indian fishery) caught 41,000 chinook and 142,000 coho.

These numbers point to the fact that members of the Puget Sound commercial fleet--most of whom spend the summer season in Alaska anyway--are allowed mainly to fish fall chum runs in Hood Canal, where hatchery fish are plentiful. In 1997, the commercial catch by non-treaty gillnetters and purse seiners amounted to nearly 682,000 chums. Treaty fishermen caught 660,000 chums.

A letter from Washington state officials of Trout Unlimited to their members has recognized these facts. In part, it says "opponents of the net ban will be able to paint the net ban supporters as greedy by pointing out to the public the imbalance in the harvest of these fish."

The TU letter--which admits the initiative will likely be defeated by a wide margin--doesn't take sides, but does point out that Trout Unlimited will be "lumped together with groups that believe that the only way to have more fish is to take them from other fishers. TU's hard-won reputation will be lost."

On the other hand, if I-696 passes, the fate of the state's commercial license buy-out program "isn't clear to us, either," said Bruce Crawford, license division manager for WDF&W. He said the US/Canada agreement calls for a $30 million federal buy-out program designed to reduce US harvest of Fraser River sockeye.

Crawford said the Senate has allocated $15 million for the buy-out in next year's budget, but the House has set aside no dollars for it. Crawford said it was likely a conference committee would agree to partial funding, and more for the buy-out the following year, but he was cautious about expressing an opinion on the legality of the situation.

"Can a state affect a law that nullifies part of a federal treaty?" Crawford asked.

When the
Seiners in Hood Canal
Columbia River Alliance came out in support of Initiative 696 on Sept. 24, the rhetorical exuberance in its newsletter seemed to borrow from Greenpeace's old campaign against high seas gillnetting. "The commercial net fishery has wiped out salmon stocks and created havoc with herring, pollock, lingcod, sablefish, rockfish and whiting populations. Species population levels are so low that a net ban is necessary to prevent extinction," said the Sept. 24 Alliance Alert.

But Seattle Greenpeace spokesman Paul Clarke said his group did not support the net ban initiative because "it casts its net too wide. There is room in our environment for a vibrant sustainable fishery."

CRA's Lovelin admitted the ban would have no effect on tribal gillnetting, but he hoped that Indian fishermen "will see this as a good opportunity to explore selective fishing techniques, too."

According to Tony Meyer of the Northwest Indian Fisheries Commission, 1,300 to 1,500 tribal members are currently fishing commercially in the state--down from over 3,000 in the early 1980s. Commission chairman Billy Frank has gone on record opposing the proposed net ban as well. If the initiative passes, about 1,500 non-treaty fisherman would be affected by the ban. -B.R.


http://www.newsdata.com/enernet/fishletter/fishltr89.html

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#570743 - 01/09/10 04:04 PM Re: Gill-net salmon fishing ban on ballot? [Re: Fast and Furious]
boater Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 1597
Loc: common sense ave.
ya, so ?

Top
#570774 - 01/09/10 07:27 PM Re: Gill-net salmon fishing ban on ballot? [Re: Todd]
Somethingsmellsf Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/15/02
Posts: 4000
Loc: Ahhhhh, damn dog!
Originally Posted By: Todd
Originally Posted By: Somethingsmellsf
With all of you "experts" on here I'm surprised that there are any problems with our marine resources at all, why did you let things get so bad before you decided not to do something?


Fishy


A lot of the brand new $25 experts have no idea how much they owe to those who have been working for our fish and our fisheries for over 40 years...think you have scraps now? You'd have been done before you even got a chance to start if it wasn't for them.

Fish and fishing advocacy didn't start three years ago when CCA came to town.

Fish on...

Todd


I've been involved as long as I have lived here. During all that time our paths have never crossed, but I know people that you have crossed paths with and they were not impressed.

I would not go patting yourself on the back because the last 40 years you have had the chance to do something about the state of things and we see where that has led us.

Hows that status quo working for you.

Fishy
_________________________
NRA Life member

The idea of a middle class life is slowly drifting away as each and every day we realize that our nation is becoming more of a corporatacracy.

I think name-calling is the right way to handle this one/Dan S

We're here from the WDFW and we're here to help--Uhh Ohh!




Top
#570775 - 01/09/10 07:32 PM Re: Gill-net salmon fishing ban on ballot? [Re: Somethingsmellsf]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Fishy, you can be a dickhead about it all you want...but I never claimed to be doing it for 40 years...hell, I'm not even 40 years old.

My point is that it didn't start three years ago, and everyone who's doing it now...including anyone and everyone involved with the CCA...is standing on the shoulders of all of those who came before us.

Comments like "finally someone is doing something" and the like just show how ignorant many of the newly-initiated are.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#570776 - 01/09/10 07:38 PM Re: Gill-net salmon fishing ban on ballot? [Re: Todd]
Big_Daddy
Unregistered


I agree...

Well said Todd...however it will just fall on deaf ears.....

Top
#570777 - 01/09/10 07:39 PM Re: Gill-net salmon fishing ban on ballot? [Re: ]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Won't be the first time, and I'm 100% certain it won't be the last, either.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#570778 - 01/09/10 07:42 PM Re: Gill-net salmon fishing ban on ballot? [Re: grizz1]
Lucky Louie Offline
Carcass

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 2267
Originally Posted By: grizz1
Very well said Todd...and thanks for the years you have put in without that $25


Grizz 1-
What's the difference between a $40.00 mudslinger and a $25.00 mudslinger= $15.00. I won't play those games unless provoked and still I would probably refrain---maybe, old habits are hard to break.

Todd,
I alway acknowledge those who are making a difference when I see it on this board. There have been some excellant history discussions on previous people who have made a difference and I appreciate and love to hear about state fishing history.

LL
_________________________
The world will not be destroyed by those that are evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.- Albert Einstein

No you can’t have my rights---I’m still using them





Top
#570779 - 01/09/10 07:46 PM Re: Gill-net salmon fishing ban on ballot? [Re: ]
Somethingsmellsf Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/15/02
Posts: 4000
Loc: Ahhhhh, damn dog!
Todd, your post was YOU being a dick head to me. I have been in the trenches just as much as you and have been at it here for 20 years. When I moved here I could see the writing on the wall and yet people stood around.

You cast the first stone and then implied that you have been involved for that long,I only put your words back in your court.

I have never said finally some one is doing something about it, go back and check. But I will say that other organizations have been here for some time and yet the resource still suffers.

What is most ironic is that we all want the same thing, we just differ in how to get there.

Fishy
_________________________
NRA Life member

The idea of a middle class life is slowly drifting away as each and every day we realize that our nation is becoming more of a corporatacracy.

I think name-calling is the right way to handle this one/Dan S

We're here from the WDFW and we're here to help--Uhh Ohh!




Top
#570780 - 01/09/10 07:47 PM Re: Gill-net salmon fishing ban on ballot? [Re: Somethingsmellsf]
Dave Vedder Offline
Reverend Tarpones

Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 8379
Loc: West Duvall
I bet the gill netters simply love this thread and all the reports of continued infighting by all the various sportfishing and environmental groups. Same shait, diffrent day.
_________________________
No huevos no pollo.

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#570781 - 01/09/10 07:50 PM Re: Gill-net salmon fishing ban on ballot? [Re: Dave Vedder]
Somethingsmellsf Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/15/02
Posts: 4000
Loc: Ahhhhh, damn dog!
Originally Posted By: Dave Vedder
I bet the gill netters simply love this thread and all the reports of continued infighting by all the various sportfishing and environmental groups. Same shait, diffrent day.


Just like in my tag line about what Doc said!

Fishy
_________________________
NRA Life member

The idea of a middle class life is slowly drifting away as each and every day we realize that our nation is becoming more of a corporatacracy.

I think name-calling is the right way to handle this one/Dan S

We're here from the WDFW and we're here to help--Uhh Ohh!




Top
#570782 - 01/09/10 07:51 PM Re: Gill-net salmon fishing ban on ballot? [Re: Somethingsmellsf]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Originally Posted By: Somethingsmellsf
Originally Posted By: Todd
Originally Posted By: Somethingsmellsf
With all of you "experts" on here I'm surprised that there are any problems with our marine resources at all, why did you let things get so bad before you decided not to do something?


Fishy


A lot of the brand new $25 experts have no idea how much they owe to those who have been working for our fish and our fisheries for over 40 years...think you have scraps now? You'd have been done before you even got a chance to start if it wasn't for them.

Fish and fishing advocacy didn't start three years ago when CCA came to town.

Fish on...

Todd


I've been involved as long as I have lived here. During all that time our paths have never crossed, but I know people that you have crossed paths with and they were not impressed.

I would not go patting yourself on the back because the last 40 years you have had the chance to do something about the state of things and we see where that has led us.

Hows that status quo working for you.

Fishy


Maybe I'm having a hard time interpreting this...sure seems to me that you were calling out everyone who's not a CCA ballwasher for standing by and doing nothing...when, of course, that's most assuredly not the case.

Many folks have been doing much more than "letting things get so bad before deciding not to do nothing" for much longer than most folks on this board, and elsewhere, have even been alive...much less active in fisheries politics.

If you meant something else...I'm willing to be enlightened.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#570785 - 01/09/10 08:07 PM Re: Gill-net salmon fishing ban on ballot? [Re: Todd]
Somethingsmellsf Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/15/02
Posts: 4000
Loc: Ahhhhh, damn dog!
Originally Posted By: Todd
Fishy, you can be a dickhead about it all you want...but I never claimed to be doing it for 40 years...hell, I'm not even 40 years old.

My point is that it didn't start three years ago, and everyone who's doing it now...including anyone and everyone involved with the CCA...is standing on the shoulders of all of those who came before us.

Comments like "finally someone is doing something" and the like just show how ignorant many of the newly-initiated are.

Fish on...

Todd
Originally Posted By: Todd
Originally Posted By: Somethingsmellsf
Originally Posted By: Todd
Originally Posted By: Somethingsmellsf
With all of you "experts" on here I'm surprised that there are any problems with our marine resources at all, why did you let things get so bad before you decided not to do something?


Fishy


A lot of the brand new $25 experts have no idea how much they owe to those who have been working for our fish and our fisheries for over 40 years...think you have scraps now? You'd have been done before you even got a chance to start if it wasn't for them.

Fish and fishing advocacy didn't start three years ago when CCA came to town.

Fish on...

Todd


I've been involved as long as I have lived here. During all that time our paths have never crossed, but I know people that you have crossed paths with and they were not impressed.

I would not go patting yourself on the back because the last 40 years you have had the chance to do something about the state of things and we see where that has led us.

Hows that status quo working for you.

Fishy


Maybe I'm having a hard time interpreting this...sure seems to me that you were calling out everyone who's not a CCA ballwasher for standing by and doing nothing...when, of course, that's most assuredly not the case.

Many folks have been doing much more than "letting things get so bad before deciding not to do nothing" for much longer than most folks on this board, and elsewhere, have even been alive...much less active in fisheries politics.

If you meant something else...I'm willing to be enlightened.

Fish on...

Todd


You have certainly implied that anyone having anything to do with CCA is new to this game when in fact most of the people that I know have been fighting for the resource, just not as one voice.

Do not cast stones if you are not willing to take the heat for your miss-statements, you have made some very divisive statements on here all while claiming to work toward a common good.I am not above letting my passion for the resource let it get the best of me either, but I will never stand around and let someone slander me because I have been there and if we are standing on the shoulders of those that came before,then you are standing on my shoulders as well.
I have never been interested in any type of glory or kudos for my part in working for our resource, but I have been there none the less.

Fishy
_________________________
NRA Life member

The idea of a middle class life is slowly drifting away as each and every day we realize that our nation is becoming more of a corporatacracy.

I think name-calling is the right way to handle this one/Dan S

We're here from the WDFW and we're here to help--Uhh Ohh!




Top
#570786 - 01/09/10 08:18 PM Re: Gill-net salmon fishing ban on ballot? [Re: Todd]
Lucky Louie Offline
Carcass

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 2267
Originally Posted By: Todd


My point is that it didn't start three years ago, and everyone who's doing it now...including anyone and everyone involved with the CCA...is standing on the shoulders of all of those who came before us.

Comments like "finally someone is doing something" and the like just show how ignorant many of the newly-initiated are.

Fish on...

Todd


I just started a thread on history of people that have had a positive impact on our resources . I hope they will take advantage of the opportunity and contribute. It is very important to acknowledge those that have contributed over the years.

LL
_________________________
The world will not be destroyed by those that are evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.- Albert Einstein

No you can’t have my rights---I’m still using them





Top
#570788 - 01/09/10 08:23 PM Re: Gill-net salmon fishing ban on ballot? [Re: Dave Vedder]
SBD Offline
clown flocker

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 3731
Loc: Water
I'll bet its the BPA thats laughing there ass off watching this. All fishing groups are now in a full knock down drag out, trying to figure out how to come up with more impacts for them. The reward? A handful of hatchery fish..
_________________________


There's a sucker born every minute



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