It has been my experience that people who squeal about taxes would squeal regardless whether or not they are paying a fair share. Of course by not paying a fair share, their burden is transferred to everyone else....a point which is conveniently swept under the rug. These people aren't interested in "fair".....they want "special".....or at the very least a rewriting of the definition of "fair". Fact is, the more you make, the more you pay. Median income folks crying about "flat tax" are shooting themselves in the foot, as upper income folks pay the lion's share already.

The fact is there was not the huge outburst by politicians there is today. Lowering taxes is the primary rallying cry of the Tea Party and the Republican party. Why?

And if you look at the first chart I posted you will see we are now taxed at the lowest inflation adjusted rates in the past 50 years. Yet today we think we have a taxing crisis.

Just maybe we don't have a taxing problem, maybe we have a
spending problem..(regardless of party)

What is different now from 50 years ago is all the taxes combined. State, local, fed, and then the hidden taxes. We in have built taxes and fees through out everything we do from manufacturing to leisure activities. I don't remember what the % is but if you add all the taxes and fees we all pay it is way up there. ( around 45% of gross for the average wage earner I think but could be wrong ) When you hide taxes in product cost folks don't see them but kinda raises hell with jobs when competing with other countries as most don't take that approach.

Its a combination of different factors that bugs people.
1. Most people are convinced they pay more than they do.
2. People who do pay usually feel they get little in return. Nothing pisses me off more than looking at my tax bill, then seeing user fees on everything I want to use. Parks, walks woods, etc... Then call the cops and they refuse to come.
3. Over regulation that makes them feel they are paying to get screwed.
4. Hidden taxes that raises the rate.
5. A very visible non-working class of people who get benefits, so of which they can't afford. I was paying close to $2000 grand a month and could not get anywhere near the level of insurance my mother-in-law gets from the state (she is on SS for a disablility). For not working she had a car, cable TV. better insurance, a credit card, cell phone, and lived in a very nice apartment with a pool and work out center.
6. For those that do make a lot, a realization that they are over paying to give the benefits I listed in #5.
7. A lack in faith in the government.
8. The high Social Security rates that they are convinced are not worth anything. For self employed people this can be higher than taxes. For workers they often lump it in with their tax rate.
9. and most of all, a belief that a starter home is 2500 sq ft, a car must be brand new, cable and a cell phone are standard utiilities, and eating out is standard.


What personally is hard for me is that this last year my industry has collapsed. Almost everyone I know is struggling or has filed bankruptcy. No benefits from the state or gov't and the only program other than free school lunches I qualify for was the insurance program the state suspended. I will get by, but paying taxes really does feel like I am just handing over my money and will never see a return for 90% of it.

AM,
"They make sure each kid has a different father and usually have 4 kids. She gets child support from each dad, low income housing, food stamps and cheap medical insurance."


Simply not so. The Child Support Enforcement Act of 1976 requires that any woman receiving welfare must assign all child support payments to the state. In fact, the state collects the payments. If the total of the payments exceed the amount of welfare payment the woman receives the difference. So having kids with four guys will do absolutely nothing to increase welfare payments.

If the woman is not married to the father the state will establish paternity and set a support amount. If the woman refuses to cooperate in determining the father she is denied welfare.

Having added kids will, I believe, increase the food stamp allowance, but I doubt that is a money maker. Same with medical care. Not much benefit to having a kid just so it can have medical care.

"I've said it before and y'all get pissy. When i look at my federal taxes every year, I am amazed at how little I pay. I am undertaxed."

Hop in your microbus put on some of that shitty music your generation listens too and head on down and help this guy out with all your extra untaxed money. Why wait for someone to do if for you?


http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/forum...html#Post670402

Apparently Vedder is a welfare ex-spurt....and KayKay is Chicken Littles new internet mouthpiece.

Ain't love grand.....a week or so together in the jungle and now they're the new PP tag team.

RVW For once, you are almost right. I was deputy director of the federal child support enforcment agency for two years. I guess that does make me a bit an expert on the topic of child support.

What I don't understand is why you seem unable to have a discussion without silly name calling and character assasination. If you have a point - make it. I will happliy debate you. But if all you want to do is call names, you will have to play by yourself.

Also please note KK and AM were fudeing before I met KK.

Dave--- You ain't no ex-spurt...at least not with any credibility even if you did that for 2 years........... decades ago.

Why are you so sensitive? It seems you get a chubby by KayKays nasty retorts but wind up with a sandy vagina when the tables turn.

Pull your panties up and stop being an old bitch.

It's feuding smart guy...how come KayKay didn't correct your spelling?

AM. I have never said anything about whether or not women can job the system. I just pointed out that getting child support will not help them with welfare, and in some cases, such as your hypothetical, may keep them from qualifying for many welfare programs. If you want to continue arguing you will have to find something we disagree on.

RvW If you knew me at all you would know how far off the mark you are. I probably laugh more than anyone you know. Nothing you have said has angered me in any way. But you do make me laugh pretty often. Thanks for that.

I was disappointed that we can’t have a discussion on issues because you only want to call names. I have friends who hold many views similar to yours. But they understand you can disagree without being disagreeable. Too bad you don't get that.

There are aspects of taxes that piss me off as much as the next guy. "Hidden Taxes" was mentioned. Our state has the "opt out" parks tax that is collected unless you say "NO". Something terribly wrong with a government that uses sneak thief tactics. It is opportunistic in the extreme...."Oh, ha ha ha, you made a mistake. That'll be ten bucks, please." And the folks who created it want your respect....really.

You/Me/We are the State's milk cows....nothing more, nothing less. Get used to it. And they don't give a hoot whether or not you have chaffed tits, they're gonna yank on 'em some more.

I posted before that the way the budget will be balanced is to make everyone an outlaw. Are you starting to believe it yet?

And on just a little different note, the Feds don't have to balance the budget, so there are NO LIMITS to the amount THEY can collect. Think about that. At least at the County and State levels, the budget has to be balanced, so there is a given number that has to be reached.

I don't like long posts, so I'll shut up (go ahead, say it )

One more thing....If Seniors get tax breaks because they only make $35K, then so should anyone regardless of age. What we have going is age descrimination in reverse. Where's the break that 35 year old working Joe and his 35 year old working wife get who have a mobile home and 3 kids and only make 40K/year combined? Seniors are needy, but so are others who don't get a break.....what's wrong with that picture?

Done. Done.

One more thing....If Seniors get tax breaks because they only make $35K, then so should anyone regardless of age. What we have going is age descrimination in reverse. Where's the break that 35 year old working Joe and his 35 year old working wife get who have a mobile home and 3 kids and only make 40K/year combined? Seniors are needy, but so are others who don't get a break.....what's wrong with that picture?


I agree 100%

Dave---What's funny is we have met...a couple of times. Our conversations were pleasant and we did laugh... you bummed a few dips off of me and we chatted. You are a nice guy but so am I....internet personalities be damned.

In any case Dave I will stop...and do know that I don't dislike you in the slightest. I'd share a drink with you again...but I might have you buy this time. wink

That's all I gotta' say bout that.

Deal. I quit dipping - I hope. But the drink thing sounds fine. Can I invite my girlfriend, KK?

Truth is I wasn't so upset at your accusation KK and I were haveing sex as the implication I couldn't do better.

KK being on the bottom I would think!!!PEACE

All the answers you could ever want to your Welfare Queen questions can be found here;

http://www.dshs.wa.gov/manuals/eaz/sections/stds4cash.shtml#388-478-0045

Short answer;

If you're a worthless, pathetic $hitstain and you prefer watching Nancy Grace and hoovering up jumbo jacks and winstons as opposed to working, and you squeeze out more kids,....... you get more cash,....... period.

Whether it be in the form of child support or TANF assistance. Even if the toothless meth addict you had your fifth gremlin with pays child support, if it doesn't exceed what you would receive in cash assistance,..... the state will bring your cash assistance up to speed. Case closed.

Dave you seem like a great guy with a big heart. I'm sure it'd be a laugh to tip back a few shots of some fine tequila with ya. Although no matter how humane it seems to be to hand people [censored] who don't have the wherewithal to go out and get it for themselves,.......it's a failing policy and only serves as a detriment to the recipient.

You either didn't see the word "working" Dad AND Mom, or think that all poor folks are leaches with no ambition to be better off than they are. Too bad for you. You need to get out more?
As far as earned income credit and deductions.....the money saved/received isn't as much as you may think and certainly doesn't do much to the expense(s) of child rearing. Which, by the way, is not an expense seniors have to bear. So again....where's the justification for allowing seniors to escape? For your information the exemption also includes the house and up to five acres, and wealth is NOT a factor. In other words, old Mr. Jones, gets the exemption if he makes/draws less than Thirtyfive K after medical expenses anually EVEN if he has Three Million in the Bank....AND to top all that, Old Man Jones gets to vote on taxes he's not liable for.
Look there are no easy answers, but there are a lot of inequities out there, and there are a lot of misconceptions. Poverty is not always a clear choice.....especially in today's market.