heeeeey now hoooold on. Duck hunting lasts from October-November to Jan-Feb usually. That is IT. It's a SHORT season. So what do hunters do when the season isnt on? FISH

I know way to many hunters to let that remark slide. Most are also fisherman. Some are not, but most are.

I mean no offense, but it is not the doing of hunters that those waters are stocked with fry. I REFUSE to believe it.

Curtis

Wasn't taking a crack at Duck Hunters at all Voodoo. Like fishermen Duch Hunters
donations and liscence money are responsible for most of the habitat protection and
recent increase of duck populations we have. Without them it would be much worse
with no one to fight the developers filling in wetlands.
My gripe is with the narrow sighted focus of Federal Wildlife People who demand that F&G
plant fingerlings only, severely limiting management of those waters.

My apologies... I took that ENTIRELY wrong. Sorry bout the confusion

Ron had the right slant on it, but the message was received wrong. The Columbia Wildlife Refuge is managed for ducks and geese. Next year the impact of some of this years changes will be realized. The Hamptons, along with some others are switching from a March 1st opener (which it's been for years) to an April 1st opener. The reason for this.... early ducks returning. Beats me what those early ducks are. Only ones I've seen over there early are mergies and cormorants.

Ducks are also the reason some of the lakes are closed in the middle of the year.

These lakes are on the CWF only.

P.S. Before you think I'm against ducks, I have last years stamp, a bunch of decoys, steel shot and a 3 year old Lab.... and I'm on the refuge forum... but I also pay attention to new proposed rule changes for eastern WA lakes. Next year almost all, if not all, of the CWF is going to an April 1st opener.

The Hampton lakes were always real good just after the ice went off. One time I had a stringer of trout I caught (on a teeny little spinner and an ultralight rod) that the smallest was 1.5 pounds and the biggest was 3.5. Fishing like this was the rule the first couple of weekends.

Well, I don't really consider our lakes unmanageable.

They are classified into three management goals: trout only, warmwater only and mixed species.

The majority of our lakes are mixed species - which means we do a put and take fishery of trout and there is natural production of warmwater fish within the lake. I would say the only lake we manage hard for warmwater only would be Silver Lake (Cowlitz Co.).

Then we have our trout only waters (i.e., Mineral, Swift, Merrill, Coldwater etc.) which despite the fact that there are bass in Mineral we are NOT changing the management to mixed. I would like to see a no bass limit on that lake - but we will see how that goes.

The mixed species management, in my humble little opinion, allows us to do several things.

1. Give anglers a put and take fishery for trout.
2. Give anglers the opportunities for warmwater fishing when trout fishing declines in the warmer months.

As I said above, the majority of our lakes are mixed species. Regardless of whether a person is a warmwater advocate or an anti-warmwater person - these fish are here and they ain't going anywhere. You can rehab a lake for the next hundred years and those fish are going to show right back up!!! Must be those new kind of bass that grow legs and walk from one body of water to the next. But more likely it is the fact that people continue to plant them whereever they feel like it.

So, it is better that we manage them and try to make some sort of fishery out of them - rather than ignore them hoping that they will go away because they just simply aren't going too.

Education is always the best tool. Warmwater fish do not need to be in every single lake in Washington. But I think that we should provide this type of fishery in lakes where they do currently exist. (By exist, I don't mean Joe Angler planting a bunch of bass tomorrow in a trout only lake and saying, hey provide a fishery, there are bass here! Uh, nope. Not gonna work!).

This has been a good debate. Very good points on both sides of the coin. Not an easy answer to find though.

stace

Well maybe we view management differently Stacie.

Let me reiterate my key points.
1) Nearly all lakes in W. Washington that are now "mixed species lakes"were once trout only lakes and managed with fry plants and most provided excellent fishing many even in midsummer. The same can be said for far too many E.Wash lakes that are now Trashed w/perch,bass ,bluegill,etc. These lakes could be MANAGED without the serious bucks needed to plant stockers and triploids in far fewer numbers and fewer lakes.

2) F&G does not HAVE to throw up their hands and claim we now MUST have mostly mixed species lakes simply because some jerk keeps trashing them with perch etc.. They CHOOSE to do it. There is Rotenone Rehabilitation that used to be widely practiced....remember!

3)Spiney Ray species come free, but liscense charges continue to increase....suspicious considering
we now have a Director of F&G who is against the Rotenone program and considering #1. Do I see
a trend here that seems to me to be contrary to the wishes of the majority of fishermen in Wash.
I think so!
4) I watch the "summer fishery" on those mixed species lakes you cite and it is nearly nonexistant
on most lakes. The lake soon becomes out of balance and produces tons of stunted spiney rays
plus the occasional bass of size numbering so few only a few hard core devotees try for them.
Your summer fishermen are newbys wasting their time because they know not where to go to get better or they are kids satisfied to catch anything. What used to be a thriving fall fishery now does
not exist because the small keeper plants are jerked out by June.

Pathetic management from this old timers point of view.

FishnFellaS I do agree. Instead of doing some more important things, like checking stringers and such, managing the fish, etc... The only Game Wardens I've seen have been writing small fines for Access Sewardship decals that fell off or the person had, or just talking to the fisherman, without checking anything at all.

Stacy - I think you have one of the best regions in the state for fishing. I just wish I had a merril and coldwater lake here in King County. Oh, and a Castle Lake would be nice too. And a nice big warmwater lake like Silver would be great for those times I get bored with trout. And then there are the salmon and steelhead runs down there - lewis, cowlitz, kalama, chehalis, just to name a few.

It's a good thing not everyone feels that trout are the only fish worth pursuing. I like choices - and you guys down there have some good ones!

FishnFellas & Big Bad Daddy -

You have some really good points. I give my comments in according to your points.

1. I do our historical database for lake stocking in southwest Washington. The majority of our lakes were indeed planted with trout, but not fry. Catchables from the local hatcheries. So we are operated under the same form as we did in the 40s-50s-60s etc. From the records I have, most warmwater fish have been in these lakes since that time. Our Warmwater Fish of Washington books indicates the warmwater fish must have shown up in the late 1800s. At that time, millions of fish were stocked but not by us.

In fact, interesting piece of trivia here, Battle Ground Lake started out as a warmwater fish lake. But, the bio's felt they weren't doing well, so it was then switched over to planting trout only. Actually the warmwater fish are doing pretty good right now there.

Again, only for my area, it may be entirely different up north of here!

2 - I can't really comment on the rotenone except to say it hasn't been as acceptable on the west side as on the east side - from a public point of view anyway. I know there has still been discussion as to being able to use it, but I am not sure where those discussions have led.

3 - I may be wrong, but I think the fishing license actually went down in price (with the exception of the surcharge fee)a couple of years ago from what they used to be. When we combined everything and stopped charging for the steelhead/food fish licenses.

4 - We do have one lake in particular that has stunted fish. Kress Lake has too many bluegills. But I think we will find that will go down as we have been working on the vegetation problem. But you are correct. There are A LOT of waters out there with unbalanced populations. In fact we sometimes have this problem with trout in our high lakes.

But the summer guys are out there to catch catfish and bass and seem to do pretty good. When I do creel up at Rowland Lake, the guys are out there fishing for bluegills and catching some nice ones. The fishing for trout does become non-existant, no doubt there. But some people do like to target the warmwater fish and know that summertime is the time to do it.

I really do see your points. I can imagine it is frustrating for some of the anglers out there to see some of the changes in our management. I'd say the best thing anglers can do is communicate with their local bios. I am so serious about this it's not even funny. Talk with them about your concerns and questions and suggestions.

We get what I call our 'regulars' that are in constant communication with us about things. Whether it is bull trout in Swift Reservoir, to catfish in Kress Lake, or raising salmon on local farms to re-introduce to streams.

With as well thought out points as you two have, I would think you both would be perfect candidates to work with local bio's on your ideas. And anyone else for that matter. The thing is, if you don't share your concerns with us, we aren't going to know. Don't just go to public meetings, ring us up and ask questions.

Everyone is busy with field work and all the hundred tasks that we have to do in our day, but we serve the public as well and there is always time to be made to hear from you guys.



stace