There is concurrently an investigation going on at Madigan that concerns some psychs denying a PTSD rating to some vets in order to "save the government some money." If it turns out this Staff Sergeant was one such soldier denied the proper diagnosis, those shrinks will pay dearly.

The media, today, chronicled a list of war atrocities committed by JBLM soldiers since 2002. Evidently, I work on a "rogue post."


As for some here that are now calling for us to leave immediately or hope for the Afghanis to evict us, kind of makes that whole "cut-n-run," "appeaser," and "better to fight 'em there than here" argument a little trite, eh?

They'll argue for that outcome, then immediately accuse the Prez of losing the war, cutting and running...the whole shebang...and won't sweat the hypocrisy for one second.

Fish on...

Todd

+2

Politicians would be alot more careful picking our fights if it was mandatory to re-instate the draft if we declared war. It seems many people think it's ok to send our soldiers on multiple deployments because after all, they did volunteer for it. The politicians might start thinking about their own children. Or, their potential constituents children.

I don't agree with the Death penalty in any case so, I'm fine with no State sanctioned death in this case. However, just as any criminal is ultimately responsible for their actions, so is this guy if he is convicted. We don't allow mitigating circumstances in the case for innocence or guilt in a Civilian court, those circumstances are only appropriate for the penalty phase. So it should be in this case. I'm so tired of people giving excuses for this heinous action. My God, there was a majority of women and children in this case. Excuses are like _________ , everyone's got one and they all stink!

Well Aunty, the Sun is rising in the West today - you have decided to make excuses for a murderer. Please remember that is a knife that cuts both ways.

Kinda reminds me of that alleged nut that shot Gifford and a 9 year
little girl and several others. Now he is a declared nut and will not
stand trial is the last I have heard on the issue.

However, the Sgt, being a vet, and the leader of men, admittedly
killed those women and kids. "I did it," are his alleged comment on
the matter. The classice question is WHY. What drives one to violate
all his military training and basic human taboos to do such a thing?

He should be treated no differently than any other...if he's judged competent to stand trial, then he does, and if he's found guilty, then he does his time, and if that includes getting gassed, then so be it.

If he's not competent to stand trial, then it's off to the loony bin.

If someone else fukked up and he never should have been sent back out there, then line 'em up...there's plenty of room on the docket for them next.

Fish on...

Todd

It's reasonable to think this way.
But I feel it is a bit different than the all-to-common shootings that happen in our society.

As Aunty said, we take these guys and teach them to kill. Then we send them to the outskirts of Hell and beyond.
Maybe his buddy's brain matter was blown into his face or some other horrendous experience caused him to snap.
Maybe it was a culmination of things.

With some of his history leaking out, it's starting to look like this Sergeant should not have been allowed to go back. Even if he checked out OK, 4 combat tours ?

It's a no-win and it's something that happens in all wars.
This is where we are sending our people when we go off to war.
The cost is high.

I agree...but the "schit happens in war zones" excuse doesn't hold any water with me...society in general fails people all the time, people don't become criminals because their life is awesome and they're happy, we just don't let them blame it on someone else when they get popped.

Fish on...

Todd

Didn't you know Ranty knows it all, just ask her.

I bet he's already been airlifted out of Afghanistan...

Fish on...

Todd

Nuthin' funny about this.
Asked...leaked...does it really matter ?

War sucks and it touches all of us while sucking.
Maybe we can agree on that.

Yup.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57397450/suspect-in-afghan-massacre-flown-out-of-country/

Maybe they'll send him to Egypt or Syria to be tortured...oh, wait, that's where we send "them" when they commit terrorist acts, not where we send "us" when we do the exact same thing.

Fish on...

Todd

We had a few ANA Officers that spoke good english.

I think everyone understands that... but it didn't change his conviction, they just set aside his sentence of death.

If the Court found that his PTSD rendered unable to tell the difference between right and wrong at the time he committed the murders (which is the M'Naughton rule, the standard for how an insanity plea or competency hearing is conducted), then that would be a wholly different matter.

Fish on...

Todd

...and, as an aside, reports are coming back that he walked back to his barracks, set down his weapon, and surrendered...that would make it pretty clear to me that he was in no way legally insane at the time of the murders.

Usually the "support our troops" crowd and the "tough on crime" crowd are the same crowd...this time they'll have to pick a side, without being hypocrites, which will be very difficult.

For me, at least, I'm fully in the "support our troops" crowd, but when one of them goes apeshit and shoots a bunch of innocent civilians, well, it's hard to throw much support his way. If he's found to be innocent by way of insanity, then I'll accept that. If he's not, and gets gassed, I'll accept that. If they find a lesser sentence, and base it on his service, then I'm even more ok with that.

He'll get no excuses for what he did from me, though.

If there were folks at the VA or wherever who knew or should have known that this guy was no longer fit for service, then I think they should be run up the flagpole right after him.

I feel sorry for him, and others like him, because it's pretty fukked up to be trained to be a killer, then not be one, but there are a few hundred thousand other soldiers over there, and a few million more in the past, that managed to kill the enemy without going on a rampage and shooting up a family or other civilians.

Fish on...

Todd

Marsha, the Supremes made no excuse for murder. They said that mitigating circumstances (PTSD, combat, etc.) provided reasons for reducing the penalty. Huge difference.

Yes, we trained this man to be a killer. However, he voluntarily joined and as has been said before, there are millions more who were trained that did not kill women and children in a cold blooded way.

I remember Mai lai. Calley had a lot of help in shooting up that local.
and he took most of the hit after rather than the mentality that relegates the indigents to enemies all.

What ever made the Sgt decide to off a bunch of civilians, women and
kids, is beyond my ken but I don't think he is 'Criminally insane' by the
definition. Maybe they should send him to Fort Hood to be evaluated
by the shrinks there.

This whole story saddens me and the media is loving it. I thought at first that he had volunteered for a fourth tour and figured that he was doing what he wanted to be doing.
Then I found out that he was "sent over" and was having family problems and unhappy about another tour (who could blame him?). The whole thing really sucks. Four combat tours is too much for anyone....so is three.
His thinker was no doubt so screwed up with being powerless to do anything about "home", that I'm guessing he said to himself....."I'm getting out of here.....NOW! To Hell with the price!"

Desperate men do desperate things. Very sad.

He won't get the death penalty.