Tough to watch, oh yeah, she was handcuffed.

http://globalgrind.com/node/826679

This is one of those ugly things. On drugs, arrested for wrecks earlier, bolts and heads into the street. So the question is does the officer have a responsibility to stop her by chasing her down at the risk of both going into traffic or tase? If he did not and handcuffed she made it to the main street and got nailed by a car then what? Who gets sued? Somebody will!

One wishes a different outcome but if I was the officer I would have just pursued, hopefully catching her before entering traffic. She was drugged up and out of control and at some point we all are accountable for our own conduct. It is sad she will not survive as she is to young to be checking out.

It looked like he could have just grabbed her? She's in cuffs they know who she is.....

Who is to say that tackling her and/or going hands-on wouldn't not have resulted in a similar or worse outcome.

Her injuries are a result of having hit her head on the pavement, not the tazer.

From a reasonable use of force standpoint, the officer acted entirely within clearly established legal guidelines for the application of reasonable force.

Injuries from having been tazed are often significantly less substantial than what result from going "hands-on."

The only thing I could find fault in is that it didn't appear as though anyone called for medical attention immediately, which should have happened based on the nature of the fall. They should have taken spinal precautions as well and not let her move around once on the ground.

Super sad situation and I feel terribly for everyone involved.

They should have tazed her. She took off and was a risk to herself and others.

Now the lack of even checking her for injuries and getting an assessment of how she was doing is another thing. They should have kept her down and checked for truama. At the very least called for better trained personel to do so. The city or state will likely a large sum since they didn't.

"what do you think about this tazing?"

I think she shouldn't have run from cops. Pretty simple really.

I think tasers are pretty amazing tools and I think cops should have both lethal and non-lethal options at their disposal AND have the training and judgement to know when to use one and not the other.

I have two problems with tasers though. The first is that it is pretty clear that the known dangers of them have been hidden and/or downplayed by the Taser International (the corporation) for financial reasons. The second, is that their use has become completely commonplace for passive, non-violent offenders.

I also agree with AP...seems like the fuzz thinks the Tazer is a harmless little tool that replaces a good chunk of actual police work.

Fish on...

Todd

Good shot, she should count her lucky stars that she was not sitting in a corvette in Everett because we all know how that went down.


Fishy

Don't see an issue.

She was in control of everything all along the way. She made a series of bad choices.

1. Got a suspended license by making a series of bad choices previous to the day in question.
2. Had two hit & run accidents on one day.
3. Chose to take both uppers and downers.
4. Tried to escape.

Take stupid chances, win stupid prizes.

100% justified... if it were the cop that tripped pursuing her, smashed his head on the curb, everyone would be saying "thats the risk of being a police officer"...

well, thats the risk of being a drug addict trying to flee the cops, regardless if you are cuffed or not... anyone remember the chick on Police Chases that was handcuffed and jumped in the officers car and took off endangering everyone on the road? pretty defensless little girl huh....

There have been a number of cases in court recently and almost without exception, courts are saying that tasing passively resisting people is not a reasonable use of force.

Because these tasers are relatively new to the legal system, policies and applications are still evolving. Fortunately, the courts are being pretty proactive and the decisions coming out recently are good for everyone.

Again, tasers in and of them selves are pretty harmless. The two small darts are more harmful that the electricity, and they don't hurt that much at all.

Now what happens after someone loses control of their muscles, as the unfortunate video shows, can definitely carry some potential for injury. Awareness of these issues (trauma from falls, drowning, igniting OC spray, etc.) is part of all standardized trainings these days.

By the way, the Officer wasn't cleared cuz it was the right choice. He was cleared because he was working in accordance with the agencies policy and his training. The agencies policies should change in my opinion.

she already ran twice in 1 day previous to this time... how many chances should one get?

but your right, he should have just let her run onto the highway and get splattered, so people could say it was his fault for not catching her that she got killed...

or he should have tackled her, and if the same situation of her hitting her head happened, people could say that it was his fault again...

like i said, if it was him that got injured, everyone would be saying thats the price of being an officer of the law...

why on gods earth are you defending a coke head half way heroin addict chick that decided to flee the cops after she was arrested?

im sure there are places, small towns and such, that you wouldnt hear about, that the cop would have just shot her with a real gun...

moral: DONT RUN FROM THE DAMN COPS...

she also had her hands cuffed IN FRONT of her, it wasnt like she had them behind her back, and had zero chance of stopping her fall... she would have been far more coordinated not hopped up on Coke and synthetic Heroin..

yeah, she whapped her head, but how do you know that the effects of a litteral 'Speed Ball" depending on how she took the drugs, isnt part of the reason her brain is fried?

as far as the dude by you getting shot...

1, if a cop tells you to drop something, and dear god, by gunpoint, YOU BETTER LISTEN...

2, dont put yourself in situations where cops are going to confront you.. if you do, thats your problem..

3, dont ever run from the cops, in a car, on foot, after you have been arrested, dont run EVER...

if he shot her with a rubber bullet, and it bounced funky, and hit her in the temple, killing or comatosing her, it would still be his fault by some people... if she didnt put herself in the position she did, none of this would have happened... im not saying she deserves to be a vegetable, because its not my right to judge, but, if you mess around with officers of the law, you are going to get whats coming to you... so dont do it, plain and simple.. or do do it, and you can end up laying next to her in the hospital...

Pretty much how I feel.

if a cop tells you to drop a phuckin spork, you better listen... they were nice enough to let her keep her hands in front of her, likely to make her feel more comfortable... 99 percent of cops would have placed her hands behind her back, untill processing was finnished and she was sent to a jail cell... but no, she still runs... like she did 2 times earlier that day...

since her hands were in front of her, and the cop grabbed her, she could have attempted to grab his gun.. if she would have, and shot the cop, there would be 2 things being said right now... 1, some people would have been saying that he should have used a taser, the other people would be saying that thats part of the dangers of being an officer of the law...

its a lose lose situation period, for all partys involved... and people should learn not to run from the police... ESPECIALLY after you are in custody..

see, my point exactly... the cop will be crucified by the public regardless of the outcome... lose, lose...

even if a cop is nice, they are still considered bad by some people, usually those people have no regard for the law... because if you did, you wouldnt be arguing about this right now... i just hope that you never make a stupid desicion like her, and many others have made, because bad things will come your way... ill pray for you...

also, if this broad was stealing the kicker off the back of your boat, and a cop showed up, and she ran right by him, and he shot her with a taser, whapped her head off the bumper of your truck and died... GUARENTEED, you wouldnt be saying the things you are saying, matter of fact, you would likely be defending the cops actions...

you can say im full of sh!t all you want, but you know damn well in the back of your head im dead on in regards to what i just stated about it involving you...

but you know damn well in the back of your head im dead

Last words of her brain...well, what little there was of it?

Well said. Usually the police brutality videos are clear the the cops are power hungry and out of control. I had to re-watch the beginning and the lady did try and run. Could the fat man have grabbed her insted of tazing her???? I personally would be scared to grab her. Might get stuck with a needle from looking at her.

Here is a first. I am actually saying its more that civilians fault than an cop on a power trip. Nothing here against cops, Just assho!e cops.

A screwdriver is quite obviously a deadly weapon. From the little snippet I read, the guy holding it most certainly intended to use it as such. Do you really think it is smart practice to respond to deadly threats with anything less than the same? The number or placement shots is of no consequence. Cops are trained to apply reasonable force until the threat is eliminated and there are plenty examples of criminals taking several rounds and going on to kill innocent people.

How is it these rogue cops get away with being brutal, cold, mindless killers? Do you really think we live in a society and have a legal system that would allow that? You have no idea how closely these events are scrutinized, analyzed and rehashed in court as they are held up against very clearly established standards of "reasonable."

Back to the girl, the issue isn't just "was she a threat to the officer," but was she a threat to herself or others. As someone else hypothesized, what if she ran into traffic and caused a 5 car pile up killing innocent people in the process.

Marsha, i never said that tasers were harmless.. they are "less than lethal" as are rubber bullets and bean bags... but we all know that many people each year are killed by both of them as well as tasers...

my whole point is, dont [Bleeeeep!] with cops, and this type of stuff wont happen to you... listen, be courteous, and dont ever EVER think about running... plain and simple..

oh, and being a cracked out hop head probably isnt the wisest idea either, cuz it will likely land you in confrontation with said cops...

next time wear a hard hat!

There have actually been very few causes of tasers causing a death. In each case that I am aware of, the person had a heart attack that was as much related to the stress of the event as opposed to the electrical current.

The electricity in these tasers is for the most part harmless. They run at 50k volts, but amps are the bad kind of electricity. These taser are very, very, very low in amps.

Many alarmist try to pin "taser related deaths" such as someone falling and hitting their head on the pavement on the evil taser device, which just isn't accurate.

pretty easy to say that as you dont even know me... i have had plenty of life expieriences, for the most part the last 10 years has pretty much been bad.. not by my doing, but the whole process of learning "Life"... you can go ahead and ask Mark about that if you would like, he knew my dad before i was born, and my dad knew his dad quite well, as well as my grandfather, my uncle also dated his sister Cheryl..... im sure he could give you some insight on just how much expierience i have dealt with...

cops dont just walk up to an unconsious person and shoot them because they told them to lie down and they didnt listen.. and when cops cross the line, they get reprimanded for it, the only reason people think that cops get away with everything is by the stories portrayed on the news, by the MEDIA.. blowing everything out of proportion on 1 issue, when the same thing happened in a small town, and noone reported it, because the potential to be a huge story just wasnt there... to each their own tho...


Coley, number 1 thing my dad taught me about electricity, Volts/Watts dont kill... AMPS kill, so i 100% agree with you.. usually the ones that die, are crackheads, tweakers, or the such, and their heart is going at 900mph to begin with, add addrenaline, and stress, boom goes the heart...

Those are the exact types of cases being addressed in courts right now and without exception (that i know of) the courts are finding that this is unreasonable and finding against the officer.

Courts are saying that taser use is reasonable to address a threat, but not to gain compliance when someone is passively resisting.

And to put things in perspective, there have only been a few instances (out of thousands of taser applications) where the person was "unable" to comply. One in Federal Way that was well publicized.

Avid, your right, i was out of line... im sorry.. but, you insulting me back is kinda childish dont ya think? all my point was, is that it seems as if you are backing a drug addict in a way... if he would have grabbed the back of her shirt, and the momentum caused her to spin forward, and slam face first into the bumper of that car, we would still be having this conversation, albeit arguement, about the use of excessive force... its a lose lose for him, cant get around that... its sad, but it happened... if she would have thought twice about her choices in life, she would probably be far better off... thats not the case tho, and she got what she got... once again, im sorry...

Marsha, i dont need to scour the internet, to find dirt on cops, then form an opinon that all of them are bad, and argue about practices of the law, pertaining to a few, or bunch of people that were injured or killed by BAD cops... everyone knows that there are bad cops, in every state... if you base your judgement off and handfull of occurances, with a handfull of cops, and imply that basically all of them abuse their power, then you should understand why some gamewardens consider pretty much everyone they encounter to be doing something wrong... because they are doing the exact same thing... forming an opinion, based on a handfull of others actions, and saying all or "most" are bad... is that fair?

either way, im done... if people want to rush to the aid of a drug addict that phucked up, so be it... if anything else needs to be said to me directly, do it via PM...

Avid, again, im sorry...

Drug addicts, crooks, law breakers of all sorts, you, and I all have the right to be treated fairly regardless of how badly we screw up.

Unlike our political system, I do believe our legal system is very good and highly functional despite the many severe challenges. Due to the dynamic and changing nature of something like law enforcement, the system can never be perfect, and unfortunately many times they are deciding right from wrong after the fact. Interpreting and applying law in this country, especially when facing rapidly evolving and life threatening circumstances, is likely the hardest and most unforgiving job on the planet.

The biggest problem, in my mind, the disconnect between reality/the system, and the public. Unfortunately things like TV and the media have completely distorted "our" perceptions of what is possible, reasonable, and even appropriate.

Following policy and training is the right choice, until policy and training is changed.

Sig line material. lol

The first time I tried to lightly control a handcuffed small female while putting her in the back of the patrol car, I took a nice kick to the thigh that would have really hurt if she hit where I think she was trying to hit. My first hint should have been when she hit her husband with a dog carrier causing a gushing head wound. My second clue was when I saw the S&W pocket automatic on the seat of the car that she was trying to get into. Rookie error. From then on, there were no kid gloves. The size of the subject really has no bearing.

Laying hands on someone is not a gentle procedure, specifically because of this possibility. When an officer lays hands on a person, it is to take complete control, including swiftly taking a person to the ground if needed. You can't choose the surface you get to take someone down on. They choose the situation, time and place.

Tasers don't kill people...

Overeager cops do.

Fish on...

Todd

The b!tch was out of control.
Now she's not.

The end.

I still don't see a problem with it.


FIshy

Here is an article about a study that was just done. Not really much of a "debate" anymore:

"This is no longer arguable," said Dr. Byron Lee, a cardiologist and director of the electrophysiology laboratory at the University of California, San Francisco. "This is a scientific fact. The national debate should now center on whether the risk of sudden death with Tasers is low enough to warrant widespread use by law enforcement."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/01/health..._r=1&ref=us

Your asking Ranty for common sense is like asking your
kidneys to filter the water out of a gallon of Ammonium Hydroxide.
A probably painful process. In the Marsha case , guaranteed to
produce a lot of annoying verbal backlash.

Any sort of exposure to electrical current can interfere with the hearts natural rhythm. I think the tone or approach of this article is somewhat incomplete and misleading. They looked at 8 (7 deaths) cases and determined that the electrical current that the taser generates can interfere with the hearts natural rhythm/electricity in certain individuals. I would be curious to know more about the demographics of the folks that died. Age, physical condition, etc. It is well known that a certain percentage (very small) of the population is far more susceptible to ventricular fib than others. To date there have been nearly 100,000 taser exposures across the country and the instances of cardiac arrests due to ventricular fib are extremely low. Much, much lower than say folks dying from accidentally touching an electrical fence. Less than .003%. Be careful when you read that "XX number of people have died after being tased" as in many of these cases the death was not a result of the electrical current and/or subsequent cardiac issues.

Amps are the bad kind of electricity and the std taser units used by most LE are very, very low in amps, around 2 milliamps or .0021 amps. Compare that to the AED machine that is used to restore natural heart rhythms which runs about 60 amps through your body.

As common sense would dictate, there is no perfectly safe way to employ force in the context of law enforcement. By nature, the term should tend to imply there is a risk of injury or death. The question is and will always been, was the application of force reasonable. If given the choice, I would much, much rather be tased than shot, punched, hit with a baton, or run over with a car as I am faaaaaar less likely to suffer any lasting damage as a result. I've been tased as a matter of fact (long story) and it sucks, but only for a short time.

I think science and law will continue to show that when used reasonably, tasers are still a fantastic tool that lead to far less damage than other applications of force.

Being a fairly new tool, the "appropriate and reasonable" issues are still being determined, but recent cases have been determining that taser deployment is only reasonable in cases of active resistance or worse. In other words, they are appropriate in cases where physical manipulation or other control/defensive devices would also be reasonable and again I think the potential for harm to the subject is far greater with other methods. Tasers will never be considered "deadly" force as deadly force is defined as force that is "likely" to cause death or serious injury and the stats on the tasers show quite the opposite, you are very, very, very unlikely to die as a direct result of being tased.

Bottom line, better not to find ourselves having to worry about such things!

Good post Coley.

Sg

We are always ready for long stories Coley.

From what I gathered.....we need MORE AMPS!!