Not that it matters, but I say bad. Yes, jobs are a good thing, but long-term jobs that involve activities that don't threaten our ecosystems, public safety, and day-to-day quality of life are the kind we need, IMO.

Here are a few of my concerns:

* More train traffic means more traffic delays. In smaller towns with only at grade crossings (like the one I live in), that also means less and slower access to emergency services.

* More noise.

* Reduced real estate values, due to the above.

* Increased risk of accidents at rail crossings.

* High potential for catastrophic environmental damage, especially to critical marine habitat.

* Next to none of the economic benefit will be local, yet all the messes left behind when the projects end will become local liabilities.

* We'll pay more at the pump due to false claims of reduced domestic supply (that's already happening).


Please discuss. Being as these projects are moving forward, despite significant public opposition, I would take comfort in hearing about whatever meaningful, long-term benefits to our region these projects will bring.

What options do you propose? It is nice to oppose the rail shipment but there need to be better realistic options identified. Not saying rail is best, but is there a better option that has a realistic chance of being put in place in the forseeable future?

I think it merits discussion about where the oil is going to...if it's being exported overseas then I say don't do that at all.

Fish on...

Todd

Why don't we just criminalize any movement of any substance deemed to be remotely toxic by any method?

What primary purpose do the rail system and locks serve?

Coal I'm not worried about market conditions in China are changing fast and I think it's going to kill this one. So far the Balken Crude being shipped out of the Columbia is just being loaded on barges and shipped to Anacortes and California refineries no harm there but the industry has applied for export permits. The westcoast Nat gas export is just to raise domestic prices (bend over).

I can only deduce the meaning of your first sentence, and hope for the best.

I can find nothing to support your claim that "Balken" Bakken crude is being barged from the Columbia to Anacortes. I can find that a great amount of Bakken Crude is going to Anacortes by rail.

Your statement, "The westcoast Nat gas export is just to raise domestic prices (bend over)." seems to allege a conspiracy, which is, well, bazaar.

I believe that you have found a fitting forum to air your views.

If I'm going to be inconvenienced daily and have my property values reduced, I'd much rather the cargo be non-polluting, long-term job-providing, American-made products, as opposed to oil... Wait... Did I just say American-made products? Christ... I really am sounding like a fool.

I like rail for transportation, especially when compared to alternatives. The diesel engines aren't great for the environment, but they can haul a lot more cargo with less pollution than semi trucks. For all the reasons I stated, I don't want to see trains hauling oil (and coal) to power the countries that our corporate overlords have handed virtually all our manufacturing base, through my backyard.

If any of you think manufacturing isn't critical to our economy, I think you're sorely mistaken. I firmly believe it's in our best interests to make sure energy is as expensive as possible for foreign buyers. We need to level the playing field in a hurry, or the Middle Class will disappear. Technology cannot possibly provide enough jobs to keep it going. Doing more with fewer resources, lest we forget, is among the ultimate purposes of technology. It's also a fact, despite what the "pull up your bootstraps" guys say, that not everyone can be a white collar professional. That's becoming more and more true as the price of a college education continues to skyrocket and, thanks to dominance of every retail market by large corporations, starting a small business is a much less likely avenue to financial well-being than it once was (and needs to be, if you are a true Capitalist.)

Manufacturing was what made the Middle Class strong. Without it, our standing in the world economy will crumble. History tells us this is true. On the bright side, we could become today's China a few generations down the road, but do you want your grandchildren to suffer a life of abject poverty in the meantime? If not, you'd better do everything you can to force American companies to bring their manufacturing jobs back home.

It starts with making energy cheap for Americans and expensive for our competitors. Our wages are relatively high (as they should be, and you're an elitist a$$hole if you believe otherwise), but if the cost of doing business is relatively less here than it is overseas, we can achieve the balance necessary to keep American manufacturing competitive and keep our middle class intact.

Take your pick, don't be shy.

Not much shipped by rail helps small town economies. Most rail shipments are raw materials to manufacturing centers and then finished products to the consumers. Most small towns are serviced by trucking.

hmmmmm......fruit with a pair of nuts.......

Reminds me of ............

http://www.dailyastorian.com/free/crude-...19bb2963f4.html




Yo Blackmouth

That's a lovely cornucopia, Rev. Blackmouth. Thank you.

Upon closer examination, I may be jumping the gun on the concerns regarding shipping oil overseas, which we apparently aren't doing YET. As long as the oil stays home, I'm less disgusted, but for all the other reasons, I still don't like the whole deal.

I seriously doubt all the planned projects are designed only to deliver oil to domestic refineries, but I could be wrong. Sure begs the question of why they don't just run the trains directly to the refineries....

We already import vast quantities of crude oil by tanker ships into WA via Anacortes and Cherry Point. And we assume an increasing risk to Puget Sound in doing so. (Anybody remember reading "Super Spill" in the 70s?) Sending oil to WA ports to export is just plain bass-ackwards from a national strategic resource interest point of view. But that won't stop corporations from doing it if they can make a buck.

The purpose of business is the transfer of money. Risks to natural resources, people, quality of life, and even life itself, are irrelevant. Which is precisely why government regulation is not only desirable, but imperative.

Sg

Thank you for the linc. I am 'left' to ponder the quantity of oil shipped by rail VS oil shipped by barge to Anacortes. I would think that transportation by rail would be much cheaper than transportation by barge for oil, or any bulk materials. Could government be the villain?

You are welcome.

While I am not a gambler, I do understand that it is my job to play the 'cards' that were dealt to me to the best of my ability. Let's say I'm long of spades, and I'm not going to be able to derive there maximum worth, now should I not pass them on to my partner?

Bologna. The purpose of business is business.

It is much like the purpose of life, which is life, is it not?

The transfer of money is just a regressive part of business.

Government? Well a little bit of it is necessary.

In my youth I did duty on a several Destroyers as a Machinist Mate in both the aft engine room and main control. The first ship that I served on, (Forrester class) had the main feed pump on the upper level quite close to the throttles which, in my early years of duty I spent most of my time. Well if the DA tank water level got low, and was replenished to quickly the system would not feed the main feed pump and it (the main feed pump) would loose feed water and run away. We, the 'engineers' could manually override the mechanical governors, which we did, or I would not be part of this discourse.

I have seen photos of the results of a main feed pump centrifugally 'exploding' on a Forrester class destroyer. The systems on those systems were faulty as were the governors. They were improved on in later classes.

My point is that government, or governors are only as good as their designers and tenders.

Good night my friends.

The fruit basket is good with a light sprinkling of nuts, reminds me of one of Oregon LNGs presentations which I have attended!

I'm pleased that you possess an open mind.

Oh I have a very open mind! I try to look at problems from many different angles.