I thought they reported that the ice cap actually increased from 2012 to 2013 by 500K square miles?

Thank you for that.

You might find this interesting. http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/10/22/nasa-announces-new-record-growth-of-antarctic-sea-ice-extent/

and this, http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/03/01/global-cooling-compilation/

I mostly agree with the Cliff Mass blog that was linked to above.

The jury is still out on the magnitude of the issue. We have been wrong so many times, on so many issues. It would be a supreme display of hubris to believe that we are now to be certain on this issue.

Man it poured down rain today. Warmer air can hold more moisture. But the naysayers say it isn't so.

Greenland has more ice now than when Eric the Red moved there.

And when the Siberians walked to North America they did it on dry land. We know that sea level, for example, has risen and fallen hundreds of feet just in the last 15,000 years or so.

At some point, who gives a rat's rump what the cause is. How much land is going to lost (at least for the short term) with a few foot rise? You can argue all millennium about the causes but when the water comes in the front door something needs to be done.

Anybody with functional eyes can see the decline in snow and ice cap on the Cascades and Rockies. That glacial ice is where local summer water comes from. What plans are being made for declining glacial sources of water supplies?

By being more concerned with the cause than the effect we do nothing.

J.G. Please state your source. I did a quick Google and the first 12 sites to pop up were all stated that Greenland is very rapidly losing its ice.

Of course those were by those pesky scientists not political propagandists.

Take a look at Glacier Park. Almost all of Alaska's glaciers, etc.

Believe who you want politicians or scientists. Hope its warm down there with you head under that sand.


Here's the first article to pop up. I know it's not to be trusted, because its science . . .

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/13/scienc...s-say.html?_r=0

I could cite sources all day long, but they are not to be trusted because they weren't printed in Huffpo, Mother Jones or the Rolling Stone right? I could cite sources all day long, but they are not to be trusted because they weren't printed in Foxnews, The Blaze or Breitbart right?

Maybe something Australian will suffice?

It ain't Faux News

Maybe this one?

Or this one?

Please learn something today - Ice Ages 101

The point being is that we DO NOT KNOW if its manmade or not. Or if its even happening at all. Why? Because the earth is 4 billion years old and our measureable sample size and data range is just too small to be considered accurate. Not to mention flawed models and hypotheses. All that really matters is that it can be politicized while making trillions in profit while exerting more and more control over the masses (see my previous post). Did you know that Global _______ is now a 100+ billion dollar year industry in the US alone?

No science ever is settled (see Flat Earth Society). None. That's the nature of Science...it's never 100% certain.

Both sides in this debate are acting like complete know-it-all idiots. We really, really need to teach more Science and Stats theory, because its obvious the common man cannot understand the basic principles. SCIENCE = Never 100% certain. Stats can be manipulated for mass consumption Kool-Aid drinkin'. Drink it up boys, just stay the FVCK outta my wallet (which is where this is headed next).

FYI - I'm not a denier or buyer in this case. I just know stats, models and sample sizes. The IPCC has been caught fudging the numbers which never looks good. Again, stats don't lie but statisticians do....to fit agendas.

Lastly, the 800 page Fed report that just came out does not propose ONE solution. I'll leave it up to your imagination as to why that is.

It is my understanding that Greenland was a heck of a lot more hospitable when the Vikings first settled it around 1000 CE. But, a cooling cycle destroyed the agricultural productivity of the colonies so they died out.

If you actually believe that the more than 9,500 peer reviewed studies done in more than 40 countries are all somehow skewed to fit an agenda there is absolutely no sense discussing this with you.

The refrences you listed are from a very small minority. The vast majority of studies are very clear that we are warming and that man is causing it.

Hell even GWB admitted that man is causing global warming after he met with the National Academy of Scientists. How could you conclude otherwise when you consider how much coal and oil we burn on this planet today.


Of course there is no one solution. Why would you expect there would be?



Nick: I read your links. please read this

one.http://www.wunderground.com/news/agreement-manmade-global-warming-20130516

Fair enough argument Dave. I read your link and it’s worth a look for those that have not. I'm open to all data and ideas here and I have not drawn any personal conclusions at this point (again because I am stats skeptic...not a Global _______ denier or buyer).

My only question: What were the causes for the other periods of cooling and warming that occurred before the "industrial revolution" (mass man made CO2 starting point) and why?

The Earth is a complex, living, breathing entity with natural cycles of events. To say those cycles are a result of man...well before man reached this point in evolution....is dubious at best. Again, we are framing Global _______ against a very small back drop of time (small data range) and that is an inherently dangerous game to play.

All I know is imma strikin' it rich once these glaciers melt away and reveal their booty! Gotta look for the silver lining in everything...

Flat Earthers, too...

Nick,

I'm sure you know there is already a group mining the face of several receding Alaska glaciers. Portage glacier was one you could drive right up to in 1980. Today you have to take a boat to cross a lake to see what's left of it.

Also note the arctic passage is now open a few weeks a year and many nations are arguing about right to the passage and related issues.


See what those tree hugger hippies at the DOD think.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303330204579250522717106330

Are you fookin' kidding me BU? You do understand what the "flat earth society" means right? You did pass the third grade right? It was so long ago for you, I'll give you a short refresher: It means old world Europe believed the Earth was flat until it was proven otherwise.

Science is changing all the time with new data and information. IT IS never settled. As point proven, look back to the 70's when we were all gonna die in the next ice age.

Yer' talkin' to one of the most scienty scientists on this board. I live science & engineering and conduct statistical design for experiments every. single. day.

Don't be so obtuse ya' old goat or this whipper snapper will hand you your ignorant ass on an ascot. Thanks for playin' player.

Thanks Dave. I've heard of folks starting to do this, but this is the first I've actually read up on it. PS...I'm a fellow tree hugger at heart too. We only get one Earth.

Dude! I ain't no right winger bruddah and you know this! Being that you are very old and I was born in 75', all I can remember was the great concern for next ice age. You tell me...ifin' your mush upstairs can still recall back that far.

I ain't got no time to tie these days - busy making boxes and doin' science / engineering stuff.

Here's a sample of some previously posted work. Suck it.

Creepers

Herring Tube Flies

As far as catching fish, my last two trips to the coast have been strike outs. You got me there. Of course it could just be coincidence that I didn't catch anything after shaking your filthy Liberal hand - but I doubt it.

Again, I said I'm neither a denier or buyer on Global ______. You just gonna lump a feller in ain't ya?

My filthy Independent hand has all of those fished plus Marlin, Sailfish, Wahoo, Bluefin, Blackfin, Albacore, Snappers, Groupers, Cobia and on and on and on. 2 trips doesn't concern me. Getting the stink off does!

If by skill, you mean pairing white socks with sandals....I'll pass thank you.

This is kind of a boring read
http://courses.washington.edu/pcc589/2009/readings/Dahl_Jensen.pdf

Basically says that the temperature in Greenland in 1000 ad was 1 degree kelvin (1.8 degree farenheit)warmer then it is today(2008). I'm not saying that there isn't any manmade casues that effect the climate, I just think that there is some exageration for the benefit of extracting money for studies.