You are gonna have to defined the term "leader"

48" + leader = twice baked humpies
Coming to a river near you this fall
Yummy

fixed

+1

In favor, but I would like to extend to the condemned, a choice of two punishments.

1) Standard beating about the head, neck and chest.

2) Option for a standard Indonesian-style caning.
Number of lashes TBD at streamside.

If there was a larger enforcement presence, there would be no reason to restrict leader length because the snaggers would either eventually get caught in act or fear being caught and adapt their strategy to legal means of take. Creating more rules and regs is not a substitute for enforcement or for that matter common sense.

Well said......... Length of leader is a following (monkey-see monkey-do), short leaders do just fine for flossing/snagging fish.

Keith

I viewed the proposed rule, even includes a bobber required rule. HOWEVER I did not see anywhere where there is a definition of what a "leader" is. Looked in the pamphlet. Anybody got the definition? Are the fly guys out of luck? I will call the agency tomorrow.

Well, I have talked to four people so far, nobody is able to define what a leader is.....more to follow.

Very well said.
Anyone that doesn't agree is an idiot.

A good definition would be...

Whenever a weight is attached to the line, leader length equals the distance from the attachment of said weight to the terminal hook.

Keep it civil, please.

Penny just had to delete some less-than-civil posts on this thread and that pisses Penny Paker off.

To no end.

You won't like Penny Paker when it is mad.

Around here the leader is defined as
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Wait for it

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Penny Parker.

so Doc the question comes to when no weight is used what is the leader?


I dead drift eggs in small streams all the time. It's my preferred method in clear water small stream fishing, works in lakes also,I don't think that's flossing? yet the same technique in the same stream and dirty water with moving fish can be flossing.

its not always what you are doing that makes it snagging.

Reporting back here. I talked to several people with WDFW and most of them referred me to Charmaine Ashford. She called me back after I left a message!

So she agreed with me that a definition was hard to find. HOWEVER she said its not really her thing, so somebody who did know the real deal would call me back soon.

I will report back as soon as they get back to me. How are we supposed to comment on a proposed rule if we don't know what the words in the rule mean?

I believe it's Ashbrooke

Fly guy perspective: As long as Doc's definition prevails (seems to me it should), the only time leader restrictions become an issue when fly fishing is when sink tips are in play (or any sort of lead/tungsten/etc. is applied directly to the leader). For the most part, it seems to me the same standard should apply; anyone placing more than about 3 feet of line between any form of weight and the fly is either trying to snag (see the Kalama in September) or guarantee they won't catch fish, since longer leaders cause most traditional presentations to rise out of the "zone" much more quickly (In water with current anyway).

It will be interesting to see the "official" definition, but assuming it's on par with what we're thinking, it should not compromise any fly angler (any more than selecting fly gear for fishing Chinook does by itself anyway).

Reporting again: Just got off the phone with Larry Phillips of WDFW. I was not able to get a definition of what a leader is. He wants us to meet and have a discussion about the issue and wanted to make sure that we know he feels the issue is NOT about snagging.

I still believe that if we are going to discuss it and come to ANY sort of reasonable conclusion we have to have that definition. I tried....

I don't really care what it is, I just need to know what it is so I can comply with the regulation. How silly would it be to discuss it, figure out the regulation and THEN figure out the definition?

If there is a biological reason to regulate leader length lets go for it. But we need to know what the damn thing is.

A Google search for "salmon fishing leader" or "drift fishing leader" comes up with most of the answers to your very simple question. And why are you playing the phone directory like a piano? Larry? why not call curt or Ron or some other random biologist too Maybe they'd know. ..

Or you could just call a LEO in a district that will be writing these tickets, like for the skok maybe try Smith or Juet.

I don't think fly guys are part of the issue here so I doubt the regs are really looking at them. The rule was gonna be 20" min. And 48" max but this is what is out...flossing will be harder, the bump and rip crowd will probably line more fish in the head and mouth...and us real fishermen will have some more spots open to just us as well as the BEGINNING of what might be a turning point in these type of fisheries (one can hope).

And this year, lets get a [Bleeeeep!] ton of bait guys out there, drift or bobber i dont care! Just make sure you track down the fish checker and let him know what you got it on and your other info..

Apparently we need to prove to some WDFW desk jockies that a bait fishery will work here and if the playing fields are even will catch just as many as the "other" crowd...with a lower encounter rate to boot!