Good post from Rivrguy, one of the few among us who understands (firsthand) the ultimate fallacy of the brand of "wars" we've been sending our young people to fight over the past 60 years or so. A couple decades of military presence and civil rights work can't hold up against centuries of faith-based traditions and norms. Killing and enslaving people are the only tools that work for that, and even those don't hold up long-term. People will eventually revert or evolve to the society they want; not what the almighty USA or anyone else wants them to have.

Pretty disgusting to see the media hammering the Biden Administration for somehow bungling this "exit." The way I see it, the only number that matters is number of American citizens killed during the withdrawal. So far, I believe that number is at zero....

It IS tragic to think about what will happen to Afghan citizens that worked with US forces, as well as the unfortunate fate that awaits women and girls under Taliban rule. That said, it wouldn't make any difference if we'd left 15 years ago or 15 years from now; the exact events we're watching unfold would have played out, in much the same way, for all the reasons Rivrguy noted. That's what happens when you surrender (you accept the consequences of being the loser, which aren't often kind or fun). Apparently, our media forgot that war is not pretty.

I don't think there was an elegant way to get out of this, and clearly, we needed to get out. If we don't like the optics, perhaps we should stop getting involved in unwinnable wars to sell weapons....