Thanks guys for the input. I understand about the littering problen. My home river being the nooch. I have seen things that at times that have made me embarassed to call my salf a fisherman. 15 years ago when I found my little baby, it was #10 on the chart. Then some fishing rag did a story. The next week it was wall to wall and been that way seance. I went from seeing 3 or 4 boats a day, up to 50 going down as a pack. I try to do my part to pick up litter and all that. But Iam just one boat and can't stand by 24/7. This year it come to a head. The property owner of the gravel bar between White bridge and Black creek blocked the road. The launch at Black creek can't take 50 boats hiting the ramp at the same time, no room. I went last weekend on that long drift from White bridge to Black creek, got to be 10 miles. Pulled up to one of the better holes and 7 boats ware piled up. I was at the back of the pack. The last boat, stayed up top and let them slide down. Slid down into my super duper secret spot and got a fish on the first cast. But thats not the point, I know every rock on that river and can always pull fish. Its just not the same. If all I wanted to do is get fish to eat, I could go to Safeway and have a ton of more money in the bank. I am thinking it's time to move on, and find some water with less people. Hard to do when you know a river the way I know that one. But what the hay, 1/2 the fun is exploring out that new super duper secret spot. Thanks agane Shawn, think I will go down to the Hump and see if I can find Ryannvanns bar.