KK, no one is arguing with you about whether or not the civil war was a rebellion. We only said that stever's statement that americans have lost more civil liberties in the last seven years than they ever did in the previous US history is incorrect.

I looked up those cases you posted, stlhead. Arar's story is disturbing. After hearing it, I think some more controls need to be added to the Patriot act to keep things like this from happening.

However, the Patriot act has also been credited with breaking up several Al Quaeda cells in the US that would not have been discovered otherwise. Here's a link to some old info if you're interested: http://www.usdoj.gov/olp/pdf/patriot_report_from_the_field0704.pdf

If enough American lives are saved by exposing and catching terrorists, in my mind that outweighs wrongful mistreatment of some other Americans. Your opinion may differ, but we all like catching fish