Maybe we should't pick on Bill(zen). I used to use that stuff,but it never worked for me. In fact I don't think that anything ever works for me. I can throw files all day in any river and I don't ever seem lucky. Oh I have places that do work but they are few and far between. I guess that's why it's called fishing and not catching. But I have fun no matter if I catch them or I don't. I just like to get out on the water and view all the wonderful things out there. I guess I better quit now as I like to ramble on some times. Jim S.