#1048363 - 03/03/21 05:30 PM
Re: Wild vs. hatchery
[Re: Salman]
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The Chosen One
Registered: 02/09/00
Posts: 13941
Loc: Tuleville
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We all should be, honestly.
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Tule King Paker
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#1048365 - 03/03/21 05:41 PM
Re: Wild vs. hatchery
[Re: Salman]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7532
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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Parker is not upset, he just recognizes what's going on.
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#1048371 - 03/03/21 07:54 PM
Re: Wild vs. hatchery
[Re: Salman]
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My Area code makes me cooler than you
Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 4486
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#1048374 - 03/03/21 09:45 PM
Re: Wild vs. hatchery
[Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7532
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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I wanna have what he's drinking.
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#1048380 - 03/04/21 09:56 AM
Re: Wild vs. hatchery
[Re: Carcassman]
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1380
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Which suggests to me that hatchery steelhead should be confined to a few "destroyed/compromised" systems like Cowlitz and Green with program release minimums of 250K, maybe go for 500K.
YES THIS! Win Win! Save $$$ and still have place to go catch. What would it take to make this happen?
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"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” – Ferris Bueller. Don't let the old man in!
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#1048384 - 03/04/21 10:20 AM
Re: Wild vs. hatchery
[Re: RUNnGUN]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4452
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
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an act of god
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Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in
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#1048392 - 03/04/21 11:59 AM
Re: Wild vs. hatchery
[Re: Salman]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7532
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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#1048407 - 03/04/21 01:43 PM
Re: Wild vs. hatchery
[Re: Salman]
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Returning Adult
Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 419
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#1048412 - 03/04/21 02:32 PM
Re: Wild vs. hatchery
[Re: The Moderator]
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Dick Nipples
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
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I think that's a really inartful way of saying that they will no longer be using Skamania summer runs in the Skykomish hatchery program, and instead will use locally adapted broodstock fish for the program. Nevermind that those "wild" fish are likely the progeny of Skamania hatchery fish that were passed above the falls for years lol. Fish on... Todd
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#1048459 - 03/05/21 07:42 AM
Re: Wild vs. hatchery
[Re: Salman]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7532
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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Reality runs smack-dab into a data-poor situation. Remember that ALL the anadromous fish upstream of Sunset Falls are invasive exotics.
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#1048464 - 03/05/21 08:58 AM
Re: Wild vs. hatchery
[Re: Salman]
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Returning Adult
Registered: 03/16/00
Posts: 319
Loc: snohomish, wa
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Glad WDFW is trying to keep a fishery open. So then were is the absolutely pure stock of Steelhead anywhere on the planet ? Since fish from one stream had to “stray” to a barren stream to create a new run in that stream. Why no Hysterical rants when WDFW starts a new run of salmon in river x,y or z ?
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Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
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#1048467 - 03/05/21 09:21 AM
Re: Wild vs. hatchery
[Re: Salman]
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My Area code makes me cooler than you
Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 4486
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All Steelhead are hatchery brats now.
Pretend if you must.
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#1048471 - 03/05/21 09:54 AM
Re: Wild vs. hatchery
[Re: The Moderator]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13411
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Good catch Parker. That is definitely high on the list of poorly written articles ever. In order to keep peace with the Wild Salmonid Conservancy, who keep suing WDFW, the Department agreed to discontinue using "exotic" Skamania summer steelhead in the Skykomish hatchery steelhead program. So they are using wild summer steelhead captured at Sunset Falls. And yes, those wild steelhead consist of about 20% NF wild strays and 80% naturalized Skamania origin steelhead. But hey, they be wild. And whatever keeps the lawsuits down must be a good thing from the WDFW point of view. It's going to take a while to build this hatchery program up to size because the numbers of returning steelhead (hatchery and wild) is much lower these days.
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#1048477 - 03/05/21 11:11 AM
Re: Wild vs. hatchery
[Re: Salmo g.]
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1380
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Good catch Parker. That is definitely high on the list of poorly written articles ever. In order to keep peace with the Wild Salmonid Conservancy, who keep suing WDFW, the Department agreed to discontinue using "exotic" Skamania summer steelhead in the Skykomish hatchery steelhead program. So they are using wild summer steelhead captured at Sunset Falls. And yes, those wild steelhead consist of about 20% NF wild strays and 80% naturalized Skamania origin steelhead. But hey, they be wild. That being said, will the return timing still be a Skamainia early component? IMO when they made this change on the Kalama it fd up the return timing. The summers now trickle in after the 4th of July into September when water levels get tough. They used to peak in June during decent flows. Love those spankin chrome June summers the most!
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"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” – Ferris Bueller. Don't let the old man in!
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#1048606 - 03/05/21 05:46 PM
Re: Wild vs. hatchery
[Re: The Moderator]
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Juvenile at Sea
Registered: 05/10/09
Posts: 136
Loc: around the next bend
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Its quite obvious that the author has no shame. Probably doesn't know better but the editor should be remorseful!
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#1048621 - 03/06/21 09:21 AM
Re: Wild vs. hatchery
[Re: RUNnGUN]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13411
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That being said, will the return timing still be a Skamainia early component? IMO when they made this change on the Kalama it fd up the return timing. The summers now trickle in after the 4th of July into September when water levels get tough. They used to peak in June during decent flows. Love those spankin chrome June summers the most! If you're referring to the time period late 70s, early 80s, when the Dep't. selected for large hatchery summer runs, and the return rates were high and resulted in fishable numbers of fish from late May onward, then no. The natural peak return is July, following spring runoff which peaks in May and June. The data I had going back to the beginnings of the program in the 60s showed Skamania summer runs always peaking in July. The reason for the early fish was because the tails of the bell curve for timing, with the much larger run sizes, indicated substantial numbers of fish both early and late.
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#1048626 - 03/06/21 02:52 PM
Re: Wild vs. hatchery
[Re: Salman]
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Spawner
Registered: 03/07/12
Posts: 781
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With how bad runs are nowadays I think it would be best to utilize hatcheries in streams that once had a population of summer/winter fish or both but now do not and use brood stock to recover those runs while still allowing for sport fisheries. If successful allow sport fisherman to retain wild fish from said system. Why or why not would this work? While simultaneously closing down systems that have native runs which can be utilized to produce native fish on their own. It seems like a win win to me and also if sea lions/seals could be kept in check for these particular river systems because they weren’t there before the hatchery fish.
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#1048628 - 03/06/21 04:25 PM
Re: Wild vs. hatchery
[Re: Salman]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7532
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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Name one system where a large hatchery program for steelhead operates concurrently with a strong, self-sustaining, "harvest available", genetically intact wild run. It is unlikely that this has ever occurred. We can have one or the other on a given watershed, but not both.
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#1048630 - 03/06/21 06:50 PM
Re: Wild vs. hatchery
[Re: Carcassman]
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Spawner
Registered: 03/07/12
Posts: 781
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My point! Most of these rivers with hatcheries also support wild runs. Why not build hatcheries where wild fish are non existent or going extinct and nobody has fished them have a chance at recovery while providing sportfishing opportunities?
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