#1054964 - 08/04/21 12:30 PM
Re: MA 9/10 Reports - 2021
[Re: The Moderator]
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Dick Nipples
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
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Caught two of my biggest MA9 Chinook ever on Saturday.
In unrelated news, MA9 closes tonight, 8/4, at midnight.
Fish on...
Todd
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#1055715 - 08/17/21 01:49 PM
Re: MA 9/10 Reports - 2021
[Re: The Moderator]
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 04/20/09
Posts: 1249
Loc: WaRshington
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Been doing outstanding in 10 in various places. Nice grade of fish. Get while the getting's good!
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When I grow up I want to be, One of the harvesters of the sea. I think before my days are done, I want to be a fisherman.
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#1056460 - 08/27/21 08:28 PM
Re: MA 9/10 Reports - 2021
[Re: The Moderator]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/25/01
Posts: 2834
Loc: Marysville
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The updated (thru 8/21) for MA 10 Chinook impacts are 95% of the harvest quota and 213% of the sub-legal encounters.
If the recreational fleet can not figure out how to reduce our sub-legal encounters we will continue to have a difficult time harvesting more of the available hatchery chinook.
Curt
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#1056495 - 08/28/21 03:52 PM
Re: MA 9/10 Reports - 2021
[Re: The Moderator]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7532
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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Fish adults in the river. Completely avoids immatures, maximizes poundage caught, optimizes stock identification.
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#1056501 - 08/28/21 04:41 PM
Re: MA 9/10 Reports - 2021
[Re: Carcassman]
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Returning Adult
Registered: 02/15/21
Posts: 319
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Fish adults in the river. Completely avoids immatures, maximizes poundage caught, optimizes stock identification. So, would that be above or below the commercials, and or the Tribes ?
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#1056505 - 08/28/21 06:54 PM
Re: MA 9/10 Reports - 2021
[Re: The Moderator]
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Returning Adult
Registered: 12/01/18
Posts: 389
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At least in the South Sound Area (Puyallup and Nisqually) the tribes and the recs don't fish on the same days. The recs only fish on the days when the tribes are not netting.
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#1056507 - 08/28/21 08:01 PM
Re: MA 9/10 Reports - 2021
[Re: The Moderator]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7532
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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Location would not matter. Allocation requires fish to be passed. If the NI commercials could fish selectively in the Bay (non-mixed stock) then they might go, but there would still be the bycatch issues.
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#1056517 - 08/29/21 05:29 AM
Re: MA 9/10 Reports - 2021
[Re: The Moderator]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/25/01
Posts: 2834
Loc: Marysville
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CM - I theory you suggestion sounds good but not sure that it holds up in the real world (at least for the recreational fishers).
Let's look at a real world example. For the Green river the 2021 hatchery Chinook forecast was 24,000 fish with a hatchery need of approximately 4,000 leaving 20,000 fish to split between the treaty and non-treaty fishers. For the hatchery coho the forecast was 75,000 with a hatchery need of 2,000 leaving 73,000 to split.
The tribe has demonstrated that given the opportunity they can catch their share; for the Chinook they would need to catch that 10,000 out 24,000. For a recreational fishery fishing behind that fishery it would be much more difficult.
The Green is a small river; typical August flow 311 cfs and September flow of 386 cfs. The hatchery is located about 34 miles from the river mouth with limited shore and boat access. The harsh reality is that when we see extreme shore fishing access quickly becomes limited. How would the recreational fisheries catch that share without taking the fish at the hatchery?
If we look at the exploitation rate (catch/(catch + escapement) needed in the recreational fishery on the Green to "get" their share they would need to catch 2/3 of the Chinook run and nearly 95% of the coho. A quick review of the 2019 information I found that for the Skagit hatchery spring Chinook the recreational exploitation rate was 13%. For the Skykomish hatchery summer Chinook it was 8.3% and for the Samish hatchery fall Chinook (the best I found) it was 37.7%. For coho the typically exploitation rates were 10% or less. It seems pretty clear to me that with traditional methods the recreational fishery just does not have the power to catch their share. Do we create a fishery without bag limits or method limitations at the hatchery rack? How would this fly with most anglers?
How does the table quality of a Green river Chinook caught in late July in MA 9 compare with one caught in late September at Soos Creek?
As always been the case if we wish equal catch sharing between treaty and non-treaty fishers the bulk of the non-treaty catch will have to taken by the commercial fisheries. The recreational have long lobby for the current recreational priority of PS non-treaty Chinook catch. Do they need to re-think that priority?
Somethings to consider.
Curt
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#1056519 - 08/29/21 07:53 AM
Re: MA 9/10 Reports - 2021
[Re: Smalma]
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King of the Beach
Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 5179
Loc: Carkeek Park
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The updated (thru 8/21) for MA 10 Chinook impacts are 95% of the harvest quota and 213% of the sub-legal encounters.
If the recreational fleet can not figure out how to reduce our sub-legal encounters we will continue to have a difficult time harvesting more of the available hatchery chinook.
Curt Curt, I don’t fish from a boat so my sun-legal and legal chinook encounters are minimal. I’m not up to speed these days regarding all the different things folks use with downriggers, etc. What would you suggest from a tackle equipment standpoint for boat anglers that would help reduce the sun-legal encounters? Thanks SF
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#1056523 - 08/29/21 08:23 AM
Re: MA 9/10 Reports - 2021
[Re: The Moderator]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7532
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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Smalma
Those are very valid points. If we produce lots of hatchery-origin salmon we will have to fish mixed stock and with nets to take the harvestable. Unfortunately, that truth will destroy the wild stocks, as it has in the past and continues to.
I now that we disagree on this, but current wild fish escapement goals and recovery targets are (in my mind) criminally low. I lean towards at least 1 and ideal 2 kg/sq m of summer low flow spawning reaches as the goal for each species. Accommodating that level of spawners would necessarily reduce overall exploitation rate but would allow anglers access to a higher density of fish.
A question I have on "table quality" is that I know a silver-bright fish looks better, I know that as spawning approaches fat (and probably protein) is transferred to gametes so the flesh has less fat. But, on a purely food-based quality which one provides the most nutrition? I don't know. I do know that research in the 19-teens (by WDF's predecessor) found that spring chinook, taken in Columbia River hatcheries, were (their conclusion) of higher food quality than immatures taken in the ocean. This was at a time when WDF was trying to stop the ocean troll of immature salmon as being wasteful of a food product.
I have been reviewing some Russian salmon fisheries in Kamchatka and nearby areas. Their fisheries are basically traps for pink, chum, and sockeye with chinook and coho essentially reserved for recreational. Their view of MSY is escapements >1kg/sq m. Obviously, they don't have the human population and development. Yet. But they do have a whole lotta fish.
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#1056654 - 08/30/21 10:33 AM
Re: MA 9/10 Reports - 2021
[Re: The Moderator]
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 04/20/09
Posts: 1249
Loc: WaRshington
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I'm just having trouble understanding how with over 200% of a sublegal quota, the Coho and Pink fisheries are allowed to continue as if sub legal encounters are not occuring in these fisheries, and with quota left on the table incidental chinook encounters with hatchery fish must be released....
_________________________
When I grow up I want to be, One of the harvesters of the sea. I think before my days are done, I want to be a fisherman.
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#1056709 - 08/31/21 06:52 AM
Re: MA 9/10 Reports - 2021
[Re: The Moderator]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7532
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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You have to believe in the magic of modeling. WDFW had a model (Yay, Rivrguy) that showed that if you closed the NI commercial fishery in a Bay, that no additional fish would be caught by the in-river sporties. They also believed that a NI gill net fishery that started 12 hours ahead of, and downstream from, an Indian GN fishery would not impact the Indian catch.
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#1056956 - 09/03/21 11:35 AM
Re: MA 9/10 Reports - 2021
[Re: The Moderator]
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Returning Adult
Registered: 12/01/18
Posts: 389
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In area 11, we knew two weeks before it closed what the closing date was going to be. What does that tell you?
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#1056959 - 09/03/21 01:07 PM
Re: MA 9/10 Reports - 2021
[Re: The Moderator]
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 03/06/01
Posts: 1184
Loc: Gig Harbor, WA
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That there is a vast dark conspiracy Lifter. . . fb
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#1056965 - 09/03/21 04:47 PM
Re: MA 9/10 Reports - 2021
[Re: The Moderator]
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Returning Adult
Registered: 12/01/18
Posts: 389
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fb, call it what you want. It happens every year, at least in 11. The closing dates don't vary much no matter the size of the king quota. Do you think the closing date is agreed upon between WDFW and the tribe(s) before the season even starts? WDFW published the closing date two weeks before it happened. Ask the sport fishing advisers. An advisor told me the closing date would be 8/25 tow weeks earlier. We didn't see a fish checker at Pt. D boathouse during those two weeks. I fish pretty much every day (mornings). And I keep in touch with a lot of guys who fish the evenings.
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#1056988 - 09/04/21 09:23 PM
Re: MA 9/10 Reports - 2021
[Re: The Moderator]
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No Stars for You!
Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 2263
Loc: T-Town
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I can verify what Lifter99 is saying. The date was thrown around two weeks before by WDFW staff and the sport fishing advisors. I also noticed a decrease in fish checkers for the final few weeks of the season. This was also apparent a couple years ago and it was a similar situation. It isn’t adding up.
-Streamer
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#1056989 - 09/05/21 07:46 AM
Re: MA 9/10 Reports - 2021
[Re: The Moderator]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7532
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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We don't need to check, the Model Says...
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