Here is what it says and look at Chehalis and read it carefully. As written the bay and mainstem tidewater are open still. So unless it was written wrong below Fuller Hill main river is open all tributaries are closed.

Action: Closes all fishing.

Effective date: Beginning October 8, 2022, until further notice.

Species affected: All Species.

Locations (includes all tributaries to listed areas):

Black River (Grays Harbor/Thurston Co.)
Chehalis River (Grays Harbor Co.), mainstem from Fuller Bridge upstream, and all forks and tributaries from the mouth upstream.
Cloquallum Creek (Grays Harbor/Mason Co.)
Copalis River (Grays Harbor Co.)
Elk River (Grays Harbor Co.)
Hoquiam River including West and East forks (Grays Harbor Co.)
Humptulips River including all forks (Grays Harbor Co.)
Joe Creek (Grays Harbor Co.)
Johns River (Grays Harbor Co.)
Moclips River (Grays Harbor Co)
Newaukum River, including all forks (Lewis Co.)
Satsop River (Grays Harbor Co.), including all forks.
Skookumchuck River (Lewis/Thurston Co.)
Van Winkle Creek (Grays Harbor Co.)
Wishkah River (Grays Harbor Co.), from the mouth to 200’ below the weir at the Wishkah Rearing Ponds and from 150’ upstream to 150’ downstream of the Wishkah adult attraction channel/outfall structure (within the posted fishing boundary).
Wynoochee River (Grays Harbor Co.)

From what I have gathered the "mob" that came and went is stuck in reaches with little water. That was a lot of fish that moved and is the biggest movement I have seen in the Chehalis. It is the Chinook that are most vulnerable to this scenario.

Thanks for pointing that out, Rivrguy. That probably means gillnetting is still full steam ahead, too?

Frankly, leaving the lower river open flies in the face of the professed purpose of the trib closures. This way, the same fish they say we're protecting will face the most deadly gillnet and hook and line gauntlet they face in their lives untold numbers of times before the fish start moving into the tribs. Indeed, this renders the upstream closures completely pointless and unfair.

Missed bottom half of E Reg.......MY BAD!

Reason for action: These closures are necessary to protect salmon returning to coastal rivers. Fishing will reopen when flows increase, or stock assessment information suggests that salmon have resumed their upstream migration.

Additional information: This conservation measure follows regulation changes by comanagers for their respective fisheries. The National Park Service has closed their corresponding fisheries in associated waterbodies, as well.

Anglers can be notified of in-season rule changes as they are announced by signing up for WDFW Regulation Updates at wdfw.wa.gov/about/lists.

Information contact: Region 6 office, 360-249-4628

Fishers must have a current Washington fishing license, appropriate to the fishery. Check the WDFW "Fishing in Washington" rules pamphlet for details on definitions and regulations. Fishing rules are subject to change. Check the WDFW Fishing hotline for the latest rule information at 360-902-2500, press 2 for recreational rules. For the Shellfish Rule Change hotline call 360-796-3215 or toll free 1-866-880-5431.

Individuals who need to receive this information in an alternative format, language, or who need reasonable accommodations to participate in WDFW-sponsored public meetings or other activities may contact the Title VI/ADA Compliance Coordinator by phone at 360-902-2349, TTY (711), or email (Title6@dfw.wa.gov).

I have zero idea on QIN or NT commercial. Frankly without QIN numbers we are playing blind mans bluff and for whatever the reason the QIN are dragging things out or the agency staff are someplace. That is the only choices on this bit.

I imagine they're catching a lot, since fish are hanging in the tidewater longer, and they don't have to convince the fish to bite. Perhaps they were concerned they were catching too many and proposed some restraint to let the numbers rebuild?

Anyway, my final take is that these closures might be the right thing to do, but leaving the lower river and bay open is directly counterintuitive to any strategy designed to "protect" these staging fish.

I better quit thinking about this before I blow a fuse. I need a new hobby, more and more every day.

In my 50+ yrs bummin around I have never seen the rivers so low this late in October. Has to be some kind of record low. 14 day forecast is more of the same. Not good! 210 cfs on the Hoh is unheard of. Have fished there many times in tidewater when it's low, but not that low. Might have to check it out. Good time to look at things you may never see again. Lots of other systems running in the 200-300's. The fish will rush shallow water if and when they are biologically forced. Can be an impressive sight to witness. Happens the most at low light or dark. I can understand the closures. It's the best choice right now. Visible lock jaw salmon bring out the worst in anglers. Seen it too many times, frustrated anglers resorting to illegal tactics. Nature has a way of predicting this and runs seem to compensate by having huge numbers available to spawn to perpetuate the species. You can bet the future returns will pay. Pray for rain! Sucks for hunting too!

Yes pray for rain.
Today I walked the upper reaches of the west fork Chehalis and the mainstem from high Bridge down to browns creek up in timber land...
Zero springers seen and only 1 test dig in the whole reach. (Even had a snorkel crew up there that I don't think saw anything), some fish seen and some redds below Pe ell, but the Springer counts are in the absolute dirt right now

Floated Elma gt to porter yesterday and saw only a couple springers and zero redds
Both of these areas should have way more spawning since we are past the normal peak for those springers.

I DID see a fair number of prespawn Mort chinook and a couple coho in the porter float. All big fall kings that just couldn't take the low dissolved oxygen coupled with high Temps.

I have certainly never seen the Chehalis this low, its CERTAINLY time for action.

Surveyed Bingham creek down to west fork earlier this week and saw about 70 kings above Schaefer park, mostly fall fish, with a couple summer chinook on redds working.
Some coho were present.

What I DID see that relates to these closures was a noticeable amount of fishing pressure above Schaefer park(2 that I saw were most certainly not fishing for "trout") and the couple anglers I had above the middle fork were outright sight snagging and not shy about it.
This is an enforcement issue as much as anything else and we all know how people tend to fish in these low water times when the bite gets hard.

Willipa bay streams are also being hit hard with angler pressure in areas closed to salmon fishing... nemah and naselle both have close to 1000 premorts each below the intakes.
Dissolved oxygen counts are well below the baseline on "5" needed for salmon to survive...naselle had a number down in the 3's I think.

We are setting records daily with this weather and have ZERO real rain totals in the forecast.
Fish are spawning in areas right now that will be the first to be scoured with the high water when it finally comes. There is a myriad of reasons why these regs have come down the pipe...

It is truly pathetic to see the comments on said news releases from people that should know better. But that's what happens when knuckledraggers are given the chance at the mic.

So, 2 snaggers and a couple cheating "trout anglers" fishing water where the fish AREN'T is a greater threat to this year's spawn than 50-100 boats trolling bait through the tidewater where the fish ARE? To say nothing of the GILLNETS filling in the off time? Do I have that brilliant bit of policy logic right?

My point, in case you missed it, is that this closure won't "protect" $hit while the only water with fish in it is still getting relentlessly hammered. That makes it bad policy, even if a majority of the posters here who can still fish think it's sounds okay. Close the tidewater and you've got an effective, sound policy, not just another misguided lie to protect the "favored" fisheries.

Not knowing all the facts this thought. First it is not about numbers coming in but rather low flows and the fact that the fish staged up hard low. That mob of fish was huge and unlike the last few years where the fish got into safe reaches with rain this year they did not. They came in without rain early and stuck in close to tidewater areas which is not good.

This summer weather has not been around for a few years but it is a normal pattern. For many years the high risk area was below the South Elma Bridge to Fuller Bridge for Chinook. What is different is all of us. When I was younger it was locals and some sportsman and that is again the difference. Sure we had crowds then but nothing like now. To add to the misery the manner in which people conduct themselves shall we say has deteriorated more than a little bit. A lady I worked for when I was 16 used to say " most persons are decent but people are a quarrelsome, destructive, ill mannered thing". Then we have and ever growing bunch of guides crowding themselves into a already small area to fish.

So unless the preseason forecast was and is total garbage it is not a numbers thing. It is about the fish and the fact they staged up low with little water in the tribs. The bay and lower tidewater the fish have water and acreage to use. Above South Monte it gets dicey but they do have water, tides and room for now. The tribs and mainstem above fuller hill the fish are trapped and it was proper to do this. I do worry that if the fish keep stacking up in the Fuller Hill to South Monte we could loose that reach also.

One final thing this and other years the area few miles down stream below Schafer Park it has been a real problem with fishers snagging and harassing Chinook, just saying.

10/7/2022

4:32 a m.......mmmmm, how to approach this??????

After about 50 years of fishing the Chehalis River, mostly above the South Monty WDFW boat launch. Pin points where I fish, but the following needs to be said.

Past few years the Chehalis River has had major changes, lots of movement of gravel.

Places that were often for running even "prop boats" are few and far between. Oh ya, at high tide many boats will have little problem, its the changing to "low water" that causes problems. There are 4-5 places between South Monty and Fuller Bridge that cause problems. The names of these areas have been used for years,,,,barge slip, Lukins, Eagle Nest, well casing, pipe hole, pump houses, blue tarp hole. Most that fish the Chehalis will know the different places but newer persons will have no idea where they are.

The closing of the majority of rivers in Region 6, tomorrow, 10/08/2022, will force lots of boats and bank fishers to move to the Chehalis River below Fuller Bridge.

Skinny water, jet boats gota run......many of the skinny water places have bank fisher OR boats anchored......going to be hard feelings, no easy answer.

1 of my favorite "jack fishing" is at the bottom of the "blue tarp hole", changes in the river.....logs to the North, gravel build up causes all the water to go to a 20' chute......boats anchored and bank fishers.......well you know what I mean. Tough to come "off plane" skinny water....so it will be interesting in this area. Everyone wants to gets to a certain spot....I'm here to tell you, the certain spot is probably going to have boats or bank fishers there.....

This is the year to pray for rain to get the flows up.....great for the fish, also great to spread "everyone out".........but then the Bay fishers will hate it....

I know the justification isn't based on actual numbers in the tribs, but I also know I don't need to tell you of all people that every policy decision WDFW makes on salmon is about numbers (mostly on paper) at the end of the day. Someone crunched some numbers to decide what needed to be done here. In this case, I think the calculation is about how many assumed fish from each tributary managers think they can transfer to the lower river and bay allocation without endangering escapement (another number). Rather than letting people try (and mostly fail) to catch them in the tribs, they are essentially allocating the catch that would normally be occurring in the tribs to the mainstem. From an angling perspective, if you have a boat, that probably sounds pretty good, and I don't begrudge anyone for taking the opportunity; I just think an honest assessment can only arrive at the fact that upstream opportunity has been traded to allow for more harvest on the mainstem. I think the QIN, who are probably benefiting handsomely from the fish staying where they gillnet, might have had a rather solid hand to play in that game.

There should be no question among us that during times of low water, many more fish are caught and killed every day in the lower river and bay than in all the tribs combined. Simple function of number of rod hours concentrated in the area that has the most fish (yeah, more numbers). There should also be no question that when the water's low, the same fish cycle in and out of the river with tide changes (or else pile up below river mouths) until conditions in their trib of choice become suitable for them to make their move. These factors, combined, make time staging in those areas the most perilous time these fish face in their lives (after surviving smolthood, I suppose). That means it's the place that makes the least sense to fish right now if we're trying to "protect" fish, as the emergency regulation clearly states we are. That's the hangup for me. I think they're sacrificing all opportunity upstream to allow for more harvest down below, plain and simple, motivated by politics, and yes, supported by somebody's numbers.

One last thought: I hate fishing around snaggers as much as anyone. They shut down a bite quicker than anything else. That said, as ugly as it is to see (and illegal as it is), how much harm does snagging really do in modern times? Those who still do it generally abide by gear restrictions that make it hard to snag in the first place, and when they "hook up," I have observed that they lose most fish rather quickly, and those they do land are almost always released, either because they're boots, have too many fins, or (the majority) aren't fair hooked. For sure, the harassment is poor form and probably not great for fish, but hardened-off salmon are pretty tough, so even that probably has a relatively small impact at the end of the day. Don't get me wrong; not looking to legalize snagging, and I think it's despicable. Just putting it out there that snagging might not be the threat to salmon we assume it to be. I guess I'm saying it's poor justification for closing fisheries, in my opinion. Poaching is obviously another matter, but that goes on whether the river is open or not (maybe more when it's closed), so....

How much any of this matters? One last number: zero. Hope the fishing is good for those who still can. Be careful out there; I may be jealous of you downstream guys right now, but I don't want to see anyone hurt!

Flea..
While I understand and on some point agree with your comments and frustration, I think for this whole scenario you're kinda painting with a broad brush.

After having a pretty frank discussion with people that have seen your other comments I disagree with your assertion that they are just trading fish from one to the other and that the QIN have a hand in the ruling... the data supports the assumption of what in river pressure could have on kegged up fish.. the dissolved oxygen counts in all tribs is getting low to the point of the crucial cut-off for salmon to survive, coupled with high water Temps and data that we KNOW and have discussed here on this site, and indeed this thread at length on Lactic acid build up, it's dispersal time and the associated health issues from it. A fishery with 100% legal AND ethical fisherman would still..in my opinion.. have a negative and detrimental affect to the stocks with these current conditions, that's my opinion, boots on the ground everyday working these tribs.

When it comes to snagging and its associated issues, I gotta say I am quite disappointed and surprised at your assumptions to the effect that it causes...
Once again I will refer to lactic acid buildup, of course energy lost from the fish(which is finite)..do i really need to comment on HOW people release snagged fish? It certainly isnt done with "care" by most anglers, especially the knuckledraggers that employ the tactics on a regular, that right there accounts for a large jump in % to that fish ending up as a statistic.

But you also need to be aware of the other tertiary issues from snagging such as ANY time that the belly wall is punctured the chance of premortality grows exponentially, but the real issue is that even if that fish were to survive to the redd, the minute water gets into that belly cavity of a female the eggs are toast and a decent % of them will become unviable..

We can also extrapolate that data to the redd where, if that female has unviable eggs now we are not just losing that fishes production but that of the MULTIPLE males milt associated with her that could have gone to a viable female.
-seeing recent posts of guys that I know were flossing or lining fish on the humptulips talking about going 2 for 23 fish in a day, how many of the 21 that got away had these issues? How were they released?

Just one example of other effects illegal/unethical fishing has on the stock as a byproduct....and no, I certainly don't agree that poaching INCREASES during river closures. Simply put, unless it's landowners, people parking anywhere near a river are suspect to wardens. And as a surveyor who is in closed waters a lot the evidence of fishing pressure doesn't pencil out to your broadly painted assumption.


I'm not happy with the way these regs came out, I think we should have had more warning for the public and I DO think we could have squeezed out some more opportunities in GH and willipa bay tribs(what up with the mark-selective fishery?) But it is what it is right now and from someone who has been on the water counting the premorts, and as a avid fisherman in this area I agree that *while some finer details could have been better* we are on the right path for these stocks while mother nature holds us ransom for rain.

I hope you find some opportunities to get out and enjoy what you can. This sh!t isn't easy for any of us.
I'd rather not get into a pissing match with you on policy, being that as a worker bee it's not my place, I'm just telling you what I see in the field, boots on the ground and my background of being a second generation fisheries biologist/technician and of knowing these systems pretty well working them and fishing them since the late 90s

I'm surprised they left tidewater open with the tribes pulling there nets? What a mess! Joke crowds because no where else to fish, bumper boats, bankies trying, fish nowhere to hide, I don't want a salmon that bad. Flea Flicker boasts a good argument! Close it all, until rain is in the forecast.

Couple points on C&R, especially on pre-spawning fish. There has been very little work on the reasonably long-term effects of C&R. They tend to look at survival; did it live or die. If it lives, then it's all good.

We do have some data on the effects of C&R on egg survival and Rivryguy can chime in but we have brood stocked fish that were spawned; what was egg-fry survival versus (say) standard hatchery fish taken in the pond? But, for Atlantic Salmon there is data that a C&R'd female produces fewer smolts than an unfished female. IF this is true, then the escapement goal needs to be increased for a C&R fishery as more females would be needed to get the same number of smolts out. Makes for some interesting discussions.

Back when I began in Harvest was that WDF actively worked to keep fisheries away from FW areas where fish spawned. The Agency, at that time, was really not in favor of FW fisheries for salmon except in reasonably unique situations like LW sockeye and super-abundant pinks.

Especially in areas where natural escapement is important what is the downside of full closure when the fish are so stressed. A few additional spawners on top of comically low escapement goals?

To my mind the Co-managers show their true colors when they fish in conditions that are super stressful for the fish; showing that dead fish in the boat are more important than live fish on the grounds.

Everyone here is worried about the pressure on the kegged up fish at the top of tidewater, and the same people have continuously posted about how many fish are in what spot on the Chehalis basically keeping a running update as they came up the river, so might be something to stop advertising on the internet. FFS

Having had some time to cool off and process through the dregs of yet another fishing season lost, I've realized I said some pretty outrageous stuff in my previous rants. To those who know better or might have been offended, I apologize. I still have concerns about the timing (why now, when the water is finally starting to cool, even if it's still low?) and the fact that it eliminates virtually all opportunity for the bankbound, but I think I'm at least satisfied with the idea the tribs should probably be closed.

The one point I firmly stand by is that leaving the lower river open while we wait for rain, while it does provide needed opportunity, is NOT consistent with any policy designed to help the fish. On that note, if the Tribe DID pull their nets (haven't seen any confirmation yet; guess we'll find out around noon tomorrow), major kudos to them.

One more thing: Just like the rest of you, I
mostly just want to fish. When I find out I can't, I get cranky, and I sometimes go looking for answers that aren't there. Given a day or two to process, I generally even out and come to terms with the decision, no matter how much it sucks.

So who's got an open seat for the river or bay LOL?

Until you see the tribes numbers, no one has any reason to give the tribe kudos for pulling their nets. It just might be a numbers thing, where they have already taken their share, or more likely, more then their share. I am a bit jaded, but it seems there may be a reason they have not released their numbers yet, or why the state has not released them. This alone could be part of why the fishery above was closed. After watching how things work, I get very skeptical when things are done without releasing all the facts.

The QIN being slow to report numbers is regrettably normal, but there doesn't seem to be much evidence they are deliberately slow to report. Let's assume the best of intentions until something else becomes evident. But for sure, it would be better if they got their numbers posted faster.

I have not seen or been told that the QIN will not be fishing as scheduled or that the NT commercials will not be fishing. It is very much true that minus the QIN catch numbers we do not know with certainty just how the run is performing. The 1100 and change in 7 hours NT commercial set at the end the first QIN set should show good QIN catch numbers. So we wait.