#985706 - 02/18/18 10:08 AM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: eyeFISH]
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Ornamental Rice Bowl
Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12612
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Everyone should listen carefully to Commissioner Carpenters scathing comments to staff at roughly 49:30
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"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey) "If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman) The Keen Eye MDLong Live the Kings!
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#985709 - 02/18/18 10:57 AM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: eyeFISH]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7519
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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You ask for "advice" when you you don't want to follow directions.
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#985712 - 02/18/18 11:06 AM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: eyeFISH]
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Ornamental Rice Bowl
Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12612
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I regards to shifting impacts from rec to commercial....
RW weasel word of the day "flexibility"
"We all believe we have the FLEXIBILITY to do what I just said, but we don't want to push if that's NOT the intent of the Commission"
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey) "If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman) The Keen Eye MDLong Live the Kings!
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#985714 - 02/18/18 12:00 PM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: Carcassman]
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Juvenile at Sea
Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 192
Loc: United States
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By 2020 the NORs will be effectively "gone". Can't find them. So, there can be fishing on the HORs. Since the situation being created will be "impossible" to manage per the plan, we just toss the plan and fish.
I am having a little difficulty with your time line here. Do you mean that after decades of fishing in WB at hatchery management levels that included net fisheries starting late July which did not extirpate natural, production that in 3 years under the WP, they will be gone? And gone in the same year that the Willapa will be getting back the initial returns of the program cutbacks? If anything, wouldn't it be the offspring of the reduced production of hatchery fish that spawned naturally; so 2023 onward maybe?
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#985715 - 02/18/18 01:52 PM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: eyeFISH]
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Ornamental Rice Bowl
Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12612
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This will be the last year of adult returns of Willapa River origin hatchery fish from the old (pre-policy) smolt releases.
2019 will be the first year that the entire Willapa-origin cohort will be the progeny from the reduced production and smolt releases from Forks Creek.
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey) "If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman) The Keen Eye MDLong Live the Kings!
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#985716 - 02/18/18 02:14 PM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: eyeFISH]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7519
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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The Chinook will continue to be overfished in order to net the last hatchery fish. The overfishing will be from the outside wall the way in was open productivity is going sideways. Few spawners, mostly with strong ties to the hatchery. The need to aggressively net the coho and chum will further take whatever outlier Chinook are out there.
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#985717 - 02/18/18 02:15 PM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: eyeFISH]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/25/01
Posts: 2834
Loc: Marysville
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eyefish -
I thought that first year of the new Willapa hatchery release levels was in 2016.
Curt
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#985722 - 02/18/18 03:41 PM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: eyeFISH]
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Returning Adult
Registered: 08/10/02
Posts: 431
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RW needs to be fired.
WB chinook management has been a fiasco for over a decades and its all been on RWs watch whether as Region 6 director, or as a leader in olympia.
This should have been the simplest chinook fishery to manage in the entire state and over the course of his career he's screwed it up so bad nobody will be fishing in a few years, there will be no hatchery operations for chinook and a feral hatchery stock will be ESA listed and eventually dwindle to nothing.
How you take a fully integrated chinook hatchery/wild stock and end up with what we have today is beyond me.
WDFW can't get out of its own way in WB.
The idea that WB is a complex management problem for chinook is nonsense. Its simple compared to the rest of the basins in the state. The policy is simple. The plan is simple (and wrong). The politics and circumvention of the policy are the only thing that is really complex.
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Dig Deep!
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#985723 - 02/18/18 04:15 PM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: Smalma]
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Ornamental Rice Bowl
Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12612
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eyefish -
I thought that first year of the new Willapa hatchery release levels was in 2016.
Curt Having a little trouble corroborating that, Curt. Policy passed in June of 2015... about the time 3.2 million sub yearlings from a 3.6 million 2014 egg take were scheduled for release. My guess is they went out to sea. ... Which means the 2016 release should have been the first year of the reduced Forks Creek production. BUT.... The final 2015 future brood document lists another egg take of 3.6 million in 2015 to produce 3.2 million smolts for release in 2016. How does one ascertain if those smolts actually went out? It's not on the hatchery website.
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey) "If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman) The Keen Eye MDLong Live the Kings!
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#985724 - 02/18/18 04:17 PM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: eyeFISH]
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Ornamental Rice Bowl
Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12612
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What I said in my original post is the line we've been given by staff at all the advisory and planning meetings to date. Now I don't know what to believe ???
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey) "If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman) The Keen Eye MDLong Live the Kings!
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#985725 - 02/18/18 04:20 PM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: Geoduck]
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Ornamental Rice Bowl
Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12612
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Pretty "interesting" that he has risen up the ranks to become the TOP fish manager in the state. Don't be too surprised if he becomes the new Director of the whole shootin' match!
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey) "If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman) The Keen Eye MDLong Live the Kings!
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#985726 - 02/18/18 04:22 PM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: Smalma]
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Juvenile at Sea
Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 192
Loc: United States
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Correct Curt. First year of reductions at Forks Creek was 2015 brood. The first year where age 3 adults returns are impacted is 2018. So the first year where all ages classes 3-5 are fully impacted by these reductions is 2020. Consequently, the adult progeny of the 2018 spawners will first be returning in 2021, achieving full reduction of all age reductions in 2023.
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#985727 - 02/18/18 09:12 PM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: eyeFISH]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3031
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
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I have this horror movie vision of a giant walking, talking waffle......
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Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!
It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)
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#985768 - 02/19/18 07:26 PM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: eyeFISH]
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Dah Rivah Stinkah Pink Mastah
Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 6198
Loc: zipper
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Pretty "interesting" that he has risen up the ranks to become the TOP fish manager in the state. Don't be too surprised if he becomes the new Director of the whole shootin' match! Kee-rist, that just proves it's not what you know it's how long you've been there. It will be a sad fukin day if that happens.
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... Propping up an obsolete fishing industry at the expense of sound fisheries management is irresponsible. -Sg
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#985781 - 02/20/18 05:55 AM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: eyeFISH]
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Juvenile at Sea
Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 155
Loc: Hood Canal
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You boys down on the coast have arrived at the nexus. The actions of WDFW Fisheries Management over the past 3-4 years re: WB speak for themselves, and in a very clear and concise manner.
The Vice Chair of the Commission has accurately sized things up, and can move forward and act ONLY with an overwhelming outcry of public support.
Get organized, focused, and even more vocal. Fight hard to overcome the foreboding politics...and do it because it's the right thing to do.
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#985785 - 02/20/18 06:51 AM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: Great Bender]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4434
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
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My look at the 2020 thing was driven by looking at GH Chinook the 4 & 5 year age groups perform about the same proportionally. The 3 and 6 year age group are in small numbers but the 3 year number can move up or down in any given year substantially. I do not have a Willapa run reconstruction but it really does not matter much. In 2019 the Willapa River will have 10% of the prior hatchery releases but the 5 year class will be present at the full release in prior years resulting in a much larger number of HOS. Bit of a train wreck to manage I imagine. It is hard to stare into a crystal ball and be accurate but fish math does let one look at probable outcomes and the scenarios that they to dictate harvest.
In 2020 the Willapa River be a stand alone population with a hatchery release of 300 K and change. Harvest will have to be dramatically reduced in the North end of the bay. The only variable is HOW the much much smaller allowed harvest is structured.
Edited by Rivrguy (02/20/18 06:57 AM)
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Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in
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#985794 - 02/20/18 09:06 AM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: Geoduck]
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1057
Loc: Graham, WA
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RW needs to be fired.
WB chinook management has been a fiasco for over a decades and its all been on RWs watch whether as Region 6 director, or as a leader in olympia.
This should have been the simplest chinook fishery to manage in the entire state and over the course of his career he's screwed it up so bad nobody will be fishing in a few years, there will be no hatchery operations for chinook and a feral hatchery stock will be ESA listed and eventually dwindle to nothing.
How you take a fully integrated chinook hatchery/wild stock and end up with what we have today is beyond me.
WDFW can't get out of its own way in WB.
The idea that WB is a complex management problem for chinook is nonsense. Its simple compared to the rest of the basins in the state. The policy is simple. The plan is simple (and wrong). The politics and circumvention of the policy are the only thing that is really complex. Great Bender has it right. Things will continue down the Sh%$ hole as long as the same "good ol boy" is managing the show. RW has had his fingers in every crap pie that the Department has baked! The removal of Unsworth was like cutting the tail off the snake. Who was the driving force behind Unsworth's dismal performance? I can tell you, RW and Grossmann hold just as much responsibility for the mess as anyone, perhaps more!
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