For one year of adult returns on the Hoh there were age-2 and age-3 hatchery smolts that returned as adults. It looks like they were released as age-1 and hung around for a year or two before smolting. I know that a long time ago WDG was concerned about steelhead smolts residualizing but I think they only looked at if they stayed post-release and not if they finally smolted.

Double post but just making sure word is out.

This is the next netting schedule on the QIN site posted November 22 2022.

WK 48 Sunday Nov 20 pull Wednesday Nov. 23
WK 49 Sunday Nov 27 pull Wednesday Nov. 30
WK 50 Sunday Dec. 4 pull Wednesday Dec 7
WK 51 Sunday Dec. 11 pull Wednesday Dec 14


http://www.quinaultindiannation.com/Fishing%20Regs/chehalis%20commercial.pdf

Shall we assume that's primarily targeting late coho? Either way, if the QIN is fishing, we generally get to fish, too, so it looks like we will have at least a couple weeks in December... right?

Does any one believe that the state does not have the data yet to know whether or not they are going to shut it down? The only reason to wait to announce would be to keep the public outcry to after the fact. They can not answer any questions, refuse to explain why they made the decision, and then, even if they have no reason or it is done unfairly, the act has already take place. Oh, yeah, well sure the tribes kept fishing. Sure there were fish there. Maybe we should have left it open. Sorry. Nothing we can do now,

this is so correct its not even funny.

I would not be surprised if there were not agreements in place pre-season to cover this. As it is now going down.

11/26/2022



The person in Region 6, is not smart enough to have a agreement in place before "pre-season". He really needs to "leave decisions" on salmon and steelhead, go back to "cutthroat" which he claims to have some expertise????? Cutthroat, are also in a decline since the late 70's, in Region 6.

On CT I would tend to disagree. I was involved in CT research and management beginning in the 70s and at least through the 00s the anadromous component was increasing. Primarily, though, I was involved in PS so GH may have been different.

The agreements would have been made in NOF and R6 would simply be told what they were doing, Maybe.

I’m sure many of you were tuned in to the virtual town hall last night. Feels like most of us were correct in our expectations regarding opportunity this winter.

I do like that we’re getting a partial December opportunity on the Satsop.

Was interesting to see there won’t be an opportunity on the Skookumchuck for the pile of hatchery fish that end up there, and it was refreshing to hear several callers professionally but sternly express their disappointment in that, especially given the data that an open season would provide.

Was also interesting to see the state and tribes differ on Queets/Clearwater and Quinault. If the margin of error on those rivers is as small as they’re expecting, I’m glad we aren’t allowing a season, especially given the number of days the nets will be in those rivers. Would be nice to see the nets pulled as well though.

One of the interesting aspects of steelhead management is that it is 50:50 sharing in each river. In salmon, the NI side takes loads of fish (the desoreable Chinook and coho) in the ocean so getting less in the river makes legal sense. But for steelhead that fioesn't hold. So, if there are fish for one side, there must be fish for both. Unless WDFW agrees to not catch them so the Tribes can (non-selectively).

Right, that’s what seems to be happening unless I’m misunderstanding things. Is this a case of the department and tribes both taking differing approaches to conservation based on their own biologists and modelers? (Basically the state modelers not feeling good about any impacts and the tribal modelers feeling okay about a certain number of impacts.)

Or is this the state “giving up” their incidental mortality impacts so that the tribe can continue to operate a fishery?

(Or is this the state “giving up” their incidental mortality impacts so that the tribe can continue to operate a fishery?)


pretty much id say!! in region 6 the Quins run the show.. they speak and WDFW does what they are told to do!!

I'm sure we are getting the 16 days cause the Quins want to fish on the late coho. and wanted to make sure we are fishing same time so they didn't look bad.. otherwise we would not be fishing!!

If the tribes have season why wouldn't the recs have one if the system is able? Does'nt sound very scientific but does sound discriminatory to me? Lawsiuts? How do you use conservation as an argument? I didn't make the town hall, but correct me if I'm wrong. Queets tribal netting but no season? Even on the Salmon? Even if Dec and Jan only to target hatchery fish? There, the tribe has and will be guiding on all the spaces recs used to fish, including the park. That does'nt make much sense, unless it's a goal to get non tribal recs out to reduce space competition. I think the pecident was set last year when the Salmon was closed but tribal guides still fished. I think we recs are done there for good. Skookumchuck closed? Are you kidding me? That's almost 100% hatchery. I'm affraid other systems where tribal rights exist, are next on an agenda to get the recs off, and our WDFW is doing little to say no.

I didn't make the town hall either. 16 days in December on the Satsop? Really? Your chances of catching a steelhead during that time is none. They won't be in there in numbers until late January thru March. Will coho still be open during those 16 days. Thanks WDFW for the "opportunity". Skook closed ? Any season on the Wynooche? What a joke.

Plenty of injustices for this upcoming season on the coast. I’m surprised there will be no season for hatchery fish on the Skookumchuck. As far as I’m concerned, the hatchery is providing only minimal/no opportunities for anglers, so maybe it should be shut down? It appears to only exist for the purpose of supplementing tribal harvest.

If the forecasted run size on the Queets suggest there should be no season for anglers, then there must not be enough of a margin to justify any fisheries of any sort. Why are there treaty fisheries for 36 days? This is irresponsible fishery resource management.


Streamer

The program on the Skook is mitigation; paid for the by dam operator. So, the state doesn't have "their" money involved. I suspect that the state does not oppose tribal non-selective fishing to strongly to stay out of court.

Too my mind, if the State were to "win" in that the Treaty Right is to only 50% then the Tribes would seriously challenge all selective fisheries and the State has used some questionable analyses in the past.

There will be a lot of surplus hatchery steelies on the Nooch and Skook again winter. WDFW planted a lot of the excess steelies in the local lakes the last couple of years. That turned out to be a failure. The Satsop gets a lot smaller plant of winters than those two streams. The Hump winter plant are earlier returning fish than the the Nooch Skook and Satsop.

If the steelhead runs are on their last legs ecologically, then go ahead with regular fishing seasons subject to single barbless hook, artificial lures, wild steelhead release. By the concept of diminishing returns, anglers will decide when it's no longer worth the bother to spend a day fishing. Since the tribes are planning to fish, clearly there is no actual conservation concern.

tomorrow is the 1st i haven't seen anything from WDFW on rules for the big 16 days

anybody seen them?

Back when I was interviewing for jobs with WDF in salmon management one of the questions I was asked was what would I do if I (WDF) knew there was a conservation concern with a run/stock/species but the primary manager (in the case of the question it was Canada in relation to coho and chum) chose to overfish what would you recommend? The answer, at that time, was that if a run needs conservation you don't fish just because somebody else does.

Having said that, I don't think WDFW really believes there is a conservation concern. That is used as a cover argument to let the tribes fish as they wish.