And the Chehalis river is good shape in CP halfway down outgoing. Looks like fishing will be okay as far as river conditions. Take advantage of it because the next storm is headed in. Satsop looks to be headed for cycling up and down but the Chehalis flows are going to start climbing and around the 24th hit first step in flood stage as will all the upper basin tribs.

After watching the total BS in creating the new GH Policy ( which is basically WDFW do whatever you want ) I find this interesting.



Report: Fish and Wildlife Commission ‘dysfunctional’

Sportsmen and tribal officials endorsed legislation last year to eliminate the commission

Don Jenkins

Capital Press

The Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission is widely seen as “dysfunctional” and needs to be reformed, according to a report by the William D. Ruckelshaus Center.

The center, run by the University of Washington and Washington State University, interviewed 113 people to evaluate the commission and Fish and Wildlife Department. State legislators asked for the $300,000 study.

Many said the nine-member commission was politically polarized and caught up in conflict, according to a draft of the report. A final report is due out in mid-December.

The report suggests lawmakers could eliminate the commission or reduce its role. “Without these reforms, the embedded dysfunctions and issues that interviewees raised would likely continue,” the report states.

The governor appoints commissioners, who hire the Fish and Wildlife director and approve regulations.

The commission has made several high-profile decisions recently, including ending spring bear hunts, keeping wolves on the state’s endangered species list and reducing cougar hunting.

Sportsmen and tribal officials endorsed legislation last year to eliminate the commission. Wildlife advocates praised the commission’s attention to conservation.

Fish and Wildlife Commissioner Chairwoman Barbara Baker said the commission isn’t dysfunctional, but it is struggling with allocating resources as the population grows and more people recreate on state lands.

“I believe this is not really dysfunction. All this unrest is a natural consequence of change,” she said. “Dysfunction is in the eye of the beholder, and if the beholder doesn’t get what he wants, it’s dysfunction.”

The Ruckelshaus report does not cite any example of commission dysfunction. Some people interviewed said the commission was too swayed by sportsmen, while others said the commission favored animal-rights groups.

“Nearly everyone agreed that the governance structure, particularly regarding the commission, needs reform,” the report states.

One option, according to the report, is to eliminate the commission. The governor would appoint the Fish and Wildlife director, who would be a member of the governor’s cabinet.

Former Fish and Wildlife Commissioner Kim Thorburn, who served from 2015 to 2023, said the commission is “terribly dysfunctional,” but shouldn’t be eliminated. “I think it should be fixed,” she said.

Commissioners are meddling in management and scientific affairs and changing the department’s mandate, she said. “They’re changing it into the department of animal rights and predator protection.”

WDFW from page A1 to A3
Eliminating the commission would eliminate commission meetings. At meetings, members of the public comment and commissioners debate and vote.

“I think what I’m hearing (in the report) is that we disagree with each other, and we disagree with each other in public,” Fish and Wildlife Commissioner Lorna Smith said.

“I don’t think an agency in the governor’s cabinet is going to follow our model and let everybody say their piece,” she said.

Another option, according to the report, is to limit the commission to “high-level policy.” The commission would not set regulations or engage in day-to-day operations.

Other proposed reforms include having a “thirdparty facilitator” at meetings to maintain “behavior protocols” and a bipartisan legislative committee to vet candidates for the commission.

Rep. Tom Dent, R-Moses, one of the legislators interviewed by the Ruckelshaus center, said he would like for groups to participate in screening candidates. Not many legislators are in step with rural issues, he said. “I’m afraid you would run into the same problem,” he said.

Another option is direct election of Commissioners. 4 must reside on the Eastside, 4 on the Westside, and the Chair is statewide. Further, each candidate must hold, and have used, licenses or permits issued by the Agency at least 3 of the 5 years prior to election. Another option for "District" is that each Region gets 1 Commissioner, who must reside in that region. Chair still elected statewide.

I don't think the Fish & Wildlife Commission is dysfunctional. I think it, along with the Department, is struggling to figure out what it should be in the 21st century. In the 20th century it was the "hook & bullet fraternity" and few citizens had a problem with that. And the Department of Fisheries was essentially the Department of Commercial Fishing where sportfishing was an afterthought.

Fish and wildlife resources and their habitat are declining. The human population, with its demand for food, shelter, and transportation are increasing without limit, one might say - non sustainably. Personally, I think the enabling legislation for WDFW needs to be revisited. The 1995 merger of the old fisheries and game departments amended existing legislation. I guess the Legislature assumed that the core principles and values were solid bedrock that would function by simply amending. I think most objective observers would say it's been a struggle. The new Grays Harbor management policy is an excellent case in point.

Given a clean slate, I'd start with something along the lines of:

1. The Legislature hereby creates the WDFW;
2. WDFW is led by a Director appointed by the Commission, whose members (one from each region) are appointed by the Governor through advise of the citizens;
3. The purpose of the WDFW is to preserve, protect, and perpetuate the fish and wildlife resources of WA, including their habitat to the extent enacted by law;
4. WDFW allows resource use and extraction through fishing and hunting that is sustainable under #2 above;
5. WDFW acknowledges indigenous rights reserved under the Stevens treaties and works with treaty co-managers where mutual interests overlap.

My idea above is to separate resource preservation from harvest because currently they are co-equal, which has demonstrably led to over-harvest, time and again. Then comes some nitty gritty details, like agency funding, hatcheries (why? and for what purpose? Should there be deer and elk hatcheries, too?). Problem I see is that lobbying might result in an agency no better than what we currently have.

I like that proposal Salmo, especially the enabling legislation. To be clear, though, there are deer "Hatcheries", called farms. where some of the most grotesque bucks are set;ectively bred for sale to folks managing deer on their ground.

Texas, and at least much of the southeast, has taken deer farming to pretty high densities such as 100 per square mile. Plenty of quality bucks, lots of meat does, but it costs. On the other hand, making deer a sustainable industry keeps the land in farming/ranching rather than McMansions on 5 acres.

I really liked reading that sports folk and tribes had a common interest in reform. More of that, please!

Reading that the "reform" might mean absolute authority for the WDFW Director gives me "pause." I don't think anyone who has followed NOF for any length of recent time thinks that is a winning prospect for sport fishers, though it could mean a boon for commercial interests....

Queets, Quinault, and Grays Harbor rivers and tributaries fishing rules update

Action: Sets early closure dates in many areas. Maintains Selective Gear Rules with only one single-point barbless hook allowed and requires release of wild rainbow trout in areas that are open.

Effective date: Jan. 2, 2025, until further notice.
Species affected: All species.

Rules and locations:
• Chehalis River (Grays Harbor County), from mouth to the confluence of the Skookumchuck River:
Jan. 2-Feb. 28: Selective Gear Rules in effect for all species, except only one single-point barbless hook is allowed. Release wild rainbow trout.
o March 1, until further notice: closed waters.
• Chehalis River (Grays Harbor County), from the confluence of the Skookumchuck River upstream, including all forks:
o Jan. 2, until further notice: closed waters.
• Clearwater River (Jefferson County), from the mouth to Snahapish River:
o Jan. 2-Feb. 28: Selective Gear Rules in effect for all species, except only one single-point barbless hook is allowed. Release wild rainbow trout.
o March 1, until further notice: closed waters.
• Cloquallum Creek (Grays Harbor/Mason County):
o Jan. 2, until further notice: closed waters.
•
Copalis River (Grays Harbor County):
Jan. 2-Feb. 28: Selective Gear Rules in effect for all species, except only one single-point barbless hook is allowed. Release wild rainbow trout.
• Elk Creek (Lewis/Pacific County):
o Jan. 2, until further notice: closed waters.
• Elk River (Grays Harbor County):
o Jan. 2, until further notice: closed waters.
• Hoquiam River including West and East forks (Grays Harbor County):
o Jan. 2, until further notice: closed waters.
• Humptulips River (Grays Harbor County), from the mouth to the Highway 101 bridge:
o Jan. 2-Feb. 2: Selective Gear Rules in effect for all species, except only one single-point barbless hook is allowed. Release wild rainbow trout.
o Feb. 3, until further notice: closed waters.
• Humptulips River (Grays Harbor County), from the Highway 101 bridge upstream:
o Jan. 2, until further notice: closed waters.
• Humptulips River, West Fork (Grays Harbor County):
o Jan. 2, until further notice: closed waters.
• Johns River (Grays Harbor County):
o Jan. 2, until further notice: closed waters.
• Moclips River (Grays Harbor County), from mouth to Quinault Indian Reservation boundary:
o Jan. 2-Feb. 28: Selective Gear Rules in effect for all species, except only one single-point barbless hook is allowed. Release wild rainbow trout.
• Newaukum River, including South, Middle, and North forks (Lewis County):
o Jan. 2, until further notice: closed waters.
• Queets River (Grays Harbor/Jefferson County):
o Visit the Olympic National Park website or call 360-565-3000 for regulations.
• Quinault River, Upper (Grays Harbor/Jefferson County), from the mouth at upper end of Quinault Lake upstream to Olympic National Park boundary:
o Jan. 2-March 31: Selective Gear Rules in effect for all species, except only one single-point barbless hook is allowed. Release wild rainbow trout.
o April 1, until further notice: closed waters.
• Salmon River (Jefferson County):
o Jan. 2-Feb. 28: Selective Gear Rules in effect for all species, except only one single-point barbless hook is allowed. Release wild rainbow trout.
• Satsop River and East Fork (Grays Harbor County), from the mouth to bridge at Schafer State Park, and from 400 feet below Bingham Creek Hatchery dam to the dam:
o Jan. 2-Feb. 28: Selective Gear Rules in effect for all species, except only one single-point barbless hook is allowed. Release wild rainbow trout.
o March 1, until further notice: closed waters.
• Satsop River Middle and West forks (Grays Harbor County):
o Jan. 2, until further notice: closed waters.
• Skookumchuck River (Lewis/Thurston County), from mouth to 100 feet below outlet of TransAlta/WDFW steelhead rearing pond located at the base of Skookumchuck Dam:
o Jan. 2-Feb. 28: Selective Gear Rules in effect for all species, except only one single-point barbless hook is allowed. Release wild rainbow trout.
o March 1, until further notice: closed waters.
• Stevens Creek (Grays Harbor County), from mouth to cable crossing downstream of WDFW hatchery outlet:
o Jan. 2-Feb. 2: Selective Gear Rules in effect for all species, except only one single-point barbless hook is allowed. Release wild rainbow trout.
o Feb. 3, until further notice: closed waters.
• Stevens Creek (Grays Harbor County), from WDFW hatchery outlet upstream:
o Jan. 2, until further notice: closed waters.
• Van Winkle Creek (Grays Harbor County):
o Jan. 2, until further notice: closed waters.
• Wishkah River (Grays Harbor County):
o Jan. 2, until further notice: closed waters.
• Wynoochee River (Grays Harbor County), from mouth to 7400 Line Bridge:
o Jan. 2-Feb. 28: Selective Gear Rules in effect for all species, except only one single-point barbless hook is allowed. Release wild rainbow trout.
o March 1, until further notice: closed waters.
• Wynoochee River (Grays Harbor County), from 7400 Line Bridge upstream:
o Jan. 2, until further notice: closed waters.
Information contact: Coastal Region, 360-249-4628

The recent WDFW so called Grays Harbor Policy was a joke when it was adopted. No citizen traveling working with staff but more or less here ya go. Some insight for those interested.


Kim Thorburn, who served on the commission from 2015 to 2023, says she enjoyed the experience— until the last couple of years, which she described as “miserable.”

From her perspective, the change in the commission was the result of an intentional effort by “animal rights preservationists to try and take over commissions.”

“I’m a birder, not a hunter or angler,” she told Columbia Insight.

Thorburn said that while she’s interested in honoring the diversity of values across the state, during her last couple of years on the commission that fellow commissioners increasingly began injecting their own values into debates.

“That’s never how I saw my role. I’m supposed to be valuing the fact that there’s diversity out there, and I’m trying to be fair and equitable about distributing it,” she said.

One of Thorburn’s biggest concerns is the appointment process, which she said lacks transparency.

“I think the frustration of almost all the stakeholders— whether they’re landowners, rural communities, hunters, recreational anglers or commercial fisheries— is that their values are just not being included” in the appointment process, she said.

Thorburn acknowledged that commissioners listen to hours of public testimony.

“But they don’t hear,” she said.

As an example of how things have changed, she said that until a few years ago, the method for writing policies was transparent and inclusive. The commission directed staff to work on a new policy, which often included putting together advisory groups with various stakeholders. After numerous meetings the staff would come back to the commission with a draft.

“That’s gone by the wayside,” said Thorburn. “Their idea [now] is, all we have to do is come up with a 5-4 vote. It doesn’t matter what stakeholders are telling us. Sadly, they have an agenda.”

As a manager, of fish, I believed that you couldn't call yourself a manger until you could argue for and implement a fishery that you personally would not participate in or close down one of your favorites.
For quite a while, while I was in the Agency's hatchery program, I represented the agency on some DOE committees. Couple times I shared participations with somebody from the Habitat Program. He told me that I could participate in issues affecting hatcheries but he'd handle the rest. My view was that I was there to represent the Agency and if that meant taking positions that were not in hatcheries favor, I was to represent the Agency. That view actually was communicated to me by my Hatcheries Boss.

An example of a lack of communication has just reared its ugly head: the new statute protecting Southern Resident Orcas. Biologists just don't communicate with enforcement designing regulations or statutes, and it's very important.It hasn't always been that way. Under the new statute, in order to arrest or site someone, you must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the violator was within a thousand yards to a Southern Resident Killer Whale. Distant estimates don't count. How does an officer prove that the whale was an SRK when there's a chance that it might be of another group? This question must be absolute, not just an opinion. How does one (a citizen) determine a thousand yards? Judges won't convict unless people menace or harass a whale. Those who crafted this new statute didn't ask enforcement for guidance (just like they failed on the Columbia gillnet buy back). If you read the statute, most of the actions that might actually affect the SRKs are exempted. Joe Fisherman is the victim on this.
Killer whales are smart. I've spent a lot of time around them in AK and BC. Small boats don't affect them.

Who can see an orca 3,000 feet away? Exempting actions that actually harm the whales has been the norm.

just as a thought some of the commissioners are known as the " gang of four. " Anyone know which ones they are?

I have always wondered how there can be rule protecting SRKW's when it reasonably takes experts to identify. Looks like a feel-good reg that actually will accomplish nothing.

But, by doing something like this they don't have to reduce fishing.

The problem, to me, is that this gives the law enforcement the ability to write the tickets, even though they are unenforceable. Write a $500 ticket and most people will pay it rather than hire a lawyer. As I heard one city lawyer state, "Its probably not legal, but most people will just obey the statute rather than take the risk. If someone actually gets cited and takes it to court, we can drop the charges at that time." With that the statute was voted on an passed. Still in effect almost 30 years later. I would guess no one has ever been prosecuted, but it gives the chance for officers to pull over people, harass them and threaten to fine or arrest them if they do not stop the violation.

The gang of four have been the four commissioners who make up the fisheries sub-committee as I recall. I don't know which four commissioners are presently on it because I haven't been following as closely since covid.