I completely agree there should be a way for folks like you to get out there in boats. The Cowlitz is a good sled river, but the Kalama, Willapa, or Naselle? Not so much.

Personally, I can't imagine what harm it would really do to have you out on the Chehalis back-bouncing spoons about now.....

Hookless fishing? NO. That's like "new society norms" like forcing people to call boys girls and vice versa, or "choosing your pronoun". How about NO?

Next year, we need the option to buy a salmon license, or a steelhead license, each for half what one costs now. This way when they cancel steelhead season, we're not sitting on a full fare, full season license that we just got screwed out of half of the value and opportunity we thought we were getting when we purchased it.

Yeah... hookless fishing is every bit as absurd as it sounds. That I would be thrilled to be allowed to do it now is pretty pathetic, but I'll own it.

The idea of a separate steelhead and salmon license makes some sense. There is the option for FW and SW so that is kind of an. option. Or, there is the single-day. I fished FW salmon that one one year and it was cheaper for two or three one-a-days than a full season. Now, as a really old guy, the FW is dirt cheap.


I may have paid a little extra this year for hunting licenses but I got what I needed when I had a specific trip planned.

I and many others would love to be out on the Chehalis or Satsop now trying for a B run coho until the end of the month. Rivers have dropped back in after the high water. Lots of surplus hatchery coho (30,000 at last count) at Bingham on the Satsop. But WDFW will drag their feet and be silent and wait until the and of December and not open the rivers up. Then say to the rec anglers that we (WDFW) are sorry but we couldn't justify opening fishing. Then they will follow that with telling the recs to buy their 2024 licenses and we (WDFW) will see you next year. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

I was a technical advisor to the group that organized "Occupy Skagit." WDFW was notified in advance that the "fish in" would occur on a specific day at a specific location (Rockport and nearby) as a part of the larger effort to move WDFW to action to develop a Skagit specific management plan that would pass ESA muster so that the traditional catch-and-release steelhead season could occur in Feb., Mar., and Apr. when forecasted run sizes would allow fishing. The fish in occurred with artificial lures and flies without hooks or with hooks cut off at the bend. In addition, some casting instructors have held casting lessons on the Snoqualmie and Skykomish Rivers, again giving WDFW notice of dates and locations in advance. I think this is significantly, and probably legally, different than if I just take off on my own, fishing hookless flies whenever and wherever I want with no notification to WDFW.

Is Susswind still the WDFW director? Never any engagement or communication with the public. What does he do? Go into his office every morning, lock the door and collect a paycheck every two weeks?

yes lifter i would say thats about right!!

SG. I remember the topic of specific management plans for each river came up some time ago. Are those called Hatchery Genetic Management Plans, HGMP? How come other rivers have not had those done yet? It's been years? What could be the hold up? If I understood correctly, a completed HGMP could provide catch and release opportuniies, with hooks, on many rivers that have been closed for years? Looked up, https://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/management/hatcheries/hgmp, and none seem to be in the works for steelhead?

12/18/2023



I agree, even though no legal fishing is allow, I still go for a drive....Wynoochee is PERFECT color and still has Coho, Satsop is fishable and the Chehalis, while high is still perfect for both plunkers and plug/spoon fishers from a boat.....sure would be a nice xmas gift, to be able to finish 2023 on a positive note.

Humptulips, no idea but I'm sure there are Coho...........

Drifter, I don't think WDFW believes in gift giving for Christmas. Or for most other parts of the year either.

12/18/2023




Gives all Region 6 employees "kind of a total December break".

Ya ya, I know there are WDFW personnel that read the postings and would disagree but as a retired State employee I know there is "cruise control work", where you try to look busy to justify your job and pay.....

RnG,

HGMPs cover the operation of hatcheries that might have ESA impacts. The Skagit steelhead season is covered by a river specific Resource Management Plan (RMP) that addresses the impacts of the steelhead CNR season and the treaty tribes' test fishing and other fishing on the ESA-listed wild steelhead population. The first plan covered 5 years, 2018 - 2022. It was renewed for 10 years this last season to cover 2023 - 2033. RMPs have not been developed for other rivers for 2 reasons. First, no one is telling WDFW staff to do it, and second, none of the other Puget Sound rivers have wild steelhead populations that are meeting or exceeding escapement goals. So WDFW has little incentive to prepare plans for rivers where a fishing season isn't likely to be allowed to occur.

Salmo, has anybody tried the argument that since many PS steelhead stocks are not increasing under all this magnificent protection that they are actually at carrying capacity for the rivers as we prefer to manage them? And if they are at capacity, one can fish some.

Along the same vein, I once asked (at the Pacific Coast Steelhead Management Conference) if anyone had a steelhead data set (complete) that had an R/S greater than or equal to 1.0 for first time spawning fish. I couldn't find any and nobody offered up any. To my mind, that proved repeat spawners are critical. To at least some of the bios it proved that we were over-escaping. Again, time to fish if that's true.

C'man,

I've posted that numerous steelhead runs are at CC under contemporary environmental conditions, both freshwater and marine. This was in discussions about wild steelhead over on the fly fishing forum. That conversation made it only as far as a district bio, since retired. I don't think Eleazer would carry water for that contention because there are a lot of negative implications, not the least of which is co-manager relations. North sound stocks that could likely handle CNR seasons are Nooksack and Samish, but the latter would have to be limited entry. Limited entry is likely a non-starter in PNW fishing culture.

There are numerous small runs of Atlantic salmon in Quebec where fishing is allowed. However it is strictly controlled by ZEC, the management program. Most of it is limited entry, and day tickets (needed in addition to a fishing license) cost from around $60 to over $150.

So yes, a strong argument can be made that most WA wild steelhead runs are at their carrying capacities under current environmental conditions. Heck, that should be at least self evident. That was part of my analysis for Occupy Skagit.

Glad to hear that, Salmo. It's interested that the hunting culture supports limited entry (special tags). It would be worth a try.

Might have to try the whole "we're at CC" argument in Willapa as you would not have to appease the Co-Managers.

When I fished in Iceland the landowners seemed to control access, which translated into rods per day. Damn fine fishing.

Definately an economic opportunity for the State or certain Tribes. I'm surprised the applicible Tribes have not jumped on this? Whether with a guide or a daily permit to fish. There are lots of folks that would gladly pay to play, on a chance to fish winter steelhead on some P.S. and or G.H. rivers. I'm one of them. Granted, the river would have to be able to support such. Make it a "Research" oriented C&R fishery.
Is the research fishing that took place last year in G.H. happening this season?

Didn't British Columbia try limited entry steelhead fishing on the Dean River years ago? Maybe there were other rivers with limited entry, but I can't remember. A limited draw for a day of C&R on the Hoh in March would get a lot of entries. But I'd much rather just keep it open for C&R for everyone. Maybe we could make it just as ridiculous for everyone like hunting season. Mondays and Tuesdays could be flyfishing only. Wednesdays and Thursdays plugs only, and the other days only lures that you made yourself with black hooks only, not to exceed more than one half inch between the shaft and barbless point of the hook. If you're caught with a manufactured lure, you'd be subject to a fine. And, I almost forgot, mandatory fishing (hunter) orange! No camo.

Any more it's all about opportunity. Please give us old farts a chance to cast a line on our local stream, without having to drive 1-3 hrs in [Bleeeeep!] winter rd conditions to do the same. Not much to ask I don't think. Would even pay to do it. Something to consider?

Tug,

BC has had limited entry on the Dean River since the 1990s. But that is for non-residents. Any BC resident can go and fish there without the special permit. I've gone several times. You apply for the draw in March, giving 3 preferred start dates. If you get drawn, your permit is good for 8 consecutive days only, one trip per year. I went last summer, Aug. 8-15. It also costs $40/day over and above the BC non-resident license and special steelhead license. Kinda' spendy, but it's the helicopter flight to and from that makes it a special trip, cost wise.

BC also has some tight restrictions in the Skeena system, sections where non-residents can't fish on weekends, but not a strict limited entry. There are other special steelhead and trout rivers where non-residents must buy permits at $20 or $40/day, depending on the river.