After reading Salmo's Skagit story it's very easy to see that once again government is it's own worst enemy and gets in the way.

Hi All

One of main reasons we can fish the Skagit & OP Rivers on the North Coast is the Tribes/Co-Managers Worked with WDFW to come up with agreements that allow both sides to fish. Key words are WORKED WITH.

I attended both the on-line Steelhead Town Halls and a local meeting in Forks put on by the guides. Both times it was mentioned that the Hoh & Quileute's worked with WDFW to hash out an agreeable season for both.

On the other hand, the Quinault's don't seem to be a as "agreeable" to working with WDFW & when it comes to the Queets the Park. In my view the Quinault's should be ashamed that the Queets struggles to make Escapement Goals for Steelhead & Coho.

I read in multiple articles that WDW spent 2 weeks submitting proposals/options to the Quinault's for many of you to fish the Grays Harbor Hatchery fish only to be shot down. My view is that WDFW wants you fishing. Takes pressure of other areas.

Why should the Quinault's negotiate. They face no re-percussions/consequences. They net, they have their guides, and nothing can be done. As long as people pay the $$ why should they.

Maybe all of you affected by the Quinault's lack of negotiations should do what they did on the Skagit. Protest, get on the news. Make a big stink. I'm sure the Quinault's don't want bad press. Hell, get it organized and I'll drive down to support you.

Good Luck

Why not just open the GH tribs anyways, regardless what the Quinaults want or don't want? They did it for Coho? Based on hatchery numbers there is the evidence that can support a hatchery take and wild C & R season. If the press gets involved even better. A chance to explain to JQ public what's actually going on. They are in need of some bad press. Or maybe the press won't go there either?

Enjoy the Skagit and Sauk while it lasts.
Steelhead are going the way of the Dodo.

I emailed Jim Losee two weeks ago and asked a few questions concerning the Chehalis system and tribs. I asked if there was a possibility of a steelhead season. I also asked if there were still negotiations still going on between WDFW and the QIN. Or if that was finished. No answer to any of questions.
I agree with RnG. WDFW should just open season and see what the QIN does. Let the QIN make the next move. Hatchery fish are returning every week to the Nooch and Lake Aberdeen. More numbers hatchery fish will be returning to the Nooch , Satsop and Skook as we enter Feb-March. One tribe should not be holding a season up. WDFW should "grow a pair' and open the Chehalis system up. If the QIN doesn't like it then force their hand to do something about it. Like RnG said , the rivers were open to coho in November and the tribe didn't fish and didn't do anything about it other than complain to the news media that WDFW was destroying the coho which, of course, was ridiculous.

K&p and rng. I agree and support both of those statements. Damn kids cant play nice together over there again this year.

he didn't answer back? No way! That would involve being truthful and transparent.

Does everyone here know what happens to those hatchery fish when they meet the concrete on the nooch? TPU trucks those steelhead on up above the lake and dumps them in the upper river. Last year the number was 720 hatchery fish. Guess how many wilds? 0. This leaves us with an entirely segregated population. Did they open it last year? No. Will they open it this year? No. If wdfw wanted us fishing they would give us the opportunity to fish for these hatchery fish. It is a perfect opportunity for them to do something worth while. Or just dump em in the pond in elma. That's the same, right guys? Wdfw doesn't give a rats ass about how we feel or if we're getting shafted by our co managers!

Eswan, Most of those fish at the dam are trucked to the hatchery at Lake Aberdeen and spawned there and some are released in the Vance Creek pond and Lake Sylvia which has been a disaster and a waste of time. The fish that return to Lake Aberdeen up Van Winkle Creek that are from Nooch stock are also spawned. Nooch water that is piped from the Nooch to the Aberdeen hatchery is used for the Nooch stock to home in on. You are correct when you say that WDFW doesn't give a rats ass about the tax paying rec anglers. If you send an email or try to call Region 6 (Losee) for answers or information about steelhead in the Harbor, good luck. Looks like emails are deleted and calls erased. When Larry Phillips worked at Region 6 he would return my calls and I was able to talk to him. Not any communication from the present regime.

Lifter, I had the pleasure of getting reconstructive surgery on my ankle last year about this time. I was at home for a few months doing physical therapy and healing up. During this time I figured it'd be a good idea to call wdfw and talk to them. The info I posted was told to me by the regional hatchery director (cant remember the name). Not fishing was my initial bitch (still no good reason its closed) . This led to conversations about wynoochee winter runs and suggesting altering planting numbers(more summers / less winters). After speaking to a few people i got this feeling like the employee's at wdfw feel as if "nothing can be done". The inaction, lack of manuevering to provide something meaningful is what irritates me more than closing a season. Maybe if they actually told us real reasons things are closed (QIN not co managing and just managing) wdfw may be in better favor of the public. fwiw, I had better luck calling and leaving voicemail and directly harassing them versus email. Feel free to call them or tpu to verify.

Eswan, congratulations on getting someone at Region 6 to call you. I have been begging for a while for WDFW to tell us why the season is closed and if discussions with the QIN are continuing or at an impasse. When I talked to Larry Phillips a couple of years ago I suggested to him that maybe they should think about planting more summers and less winters in the Nooch. He thanked me for my input and said he would consider it. I also suggested that maybe WDFW could discontinue the winter plants and start a summer run on the Satsop. He said they would have to study planting summers on the Satsop and if this would affect other species and runs in that river. But he said he was open to the idea . But he has now left the Department.
Hope your surgery was successful. If you are a Grays Harbor and Chehalis winter steelhead angler these last few years you have plenty of time in the winter for surgeries and other things.

I have resisted saying anything but maybe the time is right. So this the unofficial understanding with the QIN is "everybody fishes or nobody fishes". Recs could do release Coho and wild steelhead with limited impact and reduce it further with tackle restrictions. After the dust up over fishing the same day with commercials, Satsop open satsop closed Chehalis Coho still open and PR blitz by the QIN "shuting salmon fishing down for conservation" . First the numbers indicated preseason forecast was wrong but we would make escapement. For the QIN it was low prices and the Coho were up early so a Chum fishery was toast so fishing was worthless so down for conservation which was a world class load of BS.

Steelhead it is similiar as we do not many wild Steelhead in Dec or even late Coho. Late Coho are latter part Dec and Jan not Dec 1. So wild Steelhead numbers do not allow net harvest but Recs can work around that issue rather well. This entire thing is about the QIN gillnets can not contol impacts so no fishing. So it is everybody fish or nobody AND CALL IT FOR CONSERVATION. Conservation my ass it is about managers butting heads like Buffalo in mating season to show who is top dog.

Interesting Jan 25 - 27

The Commission also decided on three public petitions. The Commission voted to deny a petition about Olympic Peninsula winter steelhead fishing, and WDFW staff committed to meet with petitioners to collaborate on the topic and discuss ideas brought forward in the petition. Commissioners also voted to deny a petition about Marine Area 13 crabbing and petition and about black bear management proposals.

How do you find out who are the individuals or groups submitting petitions to WDFW? The discussion of the coastal steelhead petition starts at 1:19:08. I listened but heard no reference to who brought the petition forward. Glad the reccomendation was to deny, I think?

it was the Wild Fish Conservancy, the one that sued the state for the release of hatchery fish in the Skykomish and other rivers a few years ago...

now them and the Conservation Angler have filed a 60 day notice to sue for hatchery releases in the Columbia involving the Mitchell Act...

those people are the devil if you are a fisherman...

It was the Conservation Angler not the Wild Fish Conservancy that submitted the petition. It can be found on the commission's website.

TCA Petition

The link that I put in doesn't seem to work for me, so we'll try this:
https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2024-01/winter-steelhead-season-olympic-peninsula-112923.pdf

Thanks for sharing. I could not locate it. I'm not a supporter, but it does carry some merit, since the early component wild winter runs everywhere are severely depressed, if not extinct in most rivers. Been hammered on for years, so most places it would take forever if never, to recover them without enhanced support. Curious where this may go. Can they file more suits to force WDFW to close what's currently left open?

An interesting aspect of steelhead biology is that, in WA at least, the time of return is rather highly related to age at smolting. Age-1 smolts return before age-2 which return before age-3. Age at smolting is controlled by stream productivity; the more productive the stream the younger the smolts. This also holds in BC. By reducing salmon escapements we reduce productivity which produces older smolts which return later.

The relationship of age to return time holds for hatchery fish too. An age-2 smolt or an age-3 which didn't migrate when planted come back later than the age-1s that boogied.

It also holds for wild fish taken into a hatchery and then released are age-1s.

The time of return can also be affected by continuously selecting for the earliest spawners but it starts with smolt age.

The BC work also showed that younger smolts were more abundant and the stream overwinter capacity was higher for fish that in the fall were smaller and growing faster.

If you want more smolts and younger smolts and earlier returning adults work on increasing in-stream productivity. This only takes care of the freshwater part of the equation and if we don't fix the marine waters too we will still be paddling around in low numbers until we flush them all away.

my bad, it was both of them, i thought it was just the one...




The National Marine Fisheries Service announced on February 10th that it would begin a status review to determine whether imperiled Olympic Peninsula steelhead should be protected under the Endangered Species Act. The agency’s decision came in response to an August 2022 petition filed by The Conservation Angler and Wild Fish Conservancy.

https://www.theconservationangler.org/bl...ehensive-review


they are also going after the Chinook in Alaska trying to get them listed as well....

Last week...

https://wdfw.medium.com/hoh-river-study-...ch-a943de327882